During a break in filming on the set of James Wan’s Aquaman last year in Australia, I got to participate in a group interview with Yahya Abdul-Mateen II. While you might not yet know his name, I’m pretty confident after you see Aquaman, that’s going to change. I say this because of what I saw and learned on set. In the film, Abdul-Mateen II is going to cause a lot of drama for Aquaman as Black Manta, and it’s only going to get worse if they get to make sequels. If you’re not familiar with the character, in the film, Black Manta is a high-seas pirate and mercenary named David Kane, which puts a spin on the character’s comics origin story.

During the wide-ranging interview, Abdul-Mateen II talked about how he landed the role, Black Manta’s costume, why his character is after Aquaman, how it’s heavily influenced from the comics, what he learned about the character while doing research, how he prepped to film the action, what sets Manta apart from other villains, if it’s difficult to work under the helmet, what it’s been like collaborating with Geoff Johns, and a lot more.

Check out what he had to say below.

Question: I got to say, the coolest thing I've seen today, I think, is that Black Manta costume. It looks so goddamn cool!

aquaman-movie-logo

YAHYA ABDUL-MATEEN II: Yeah! Yeah, yeah.

So what's it like wearing it?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: So you saw pictures of it?

Yeah, we did, we saw pictures of it.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Okay, cool. I'm like, I'm like, what did you see? I'm like...

Peter showed down the shot from your first day for tips.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Okay, cool. I'm like, nope, not going to get it out of me. Man, that thing is just badass, man. It's like, you know, I put it on, and you know, we have our ideas about what the character's going to be, and so I bring all of that stuff to it. But then you put that thing on, and you see yourself in the mirror, and all of a sudden, I'm, you know, 10 feet taller in that thing, and I feel like I could bust through a wall. I talked about wanting to run through walls, and just break shit in my, you know, in my meeting with Peter, when I auditioned for the job. And, I put on that suit and everything's just coming full circle, so...

That's awesome!

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Yeah, I'm excited. I know the fans are going to be really excited too. I kind of...

It's directly ripped from the comics?

aquaman-movie-black-manta-yahya-abdul-mateen
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Yeah. Which is what they want to see, you know, everyone, they kind of ask about what the themes are, what the ideas are, how are we going to mix it up, because in their minds, it's kind of difficult to pull off in a cool way. You got this guy with this really big helmet, but I think we're doing a really good job of taking care of it, and making sure that he's accurate from the comic, but still proportional and still looks really cool.

So, from a character standpoint, what's the difference, what are the similarities between playing Cadillac and playing Manta?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Oh, no, they're two, they're completely different people. I mean, I think, you know, when I think about Cadillac... When I think about Manta, I’ll describe him as the guy at the party who does not get the jokes, you know? He doesn't have a great sense of humor. He doesn't really have much time for humor and things like that. So, Cadillac is the life of the party. He needs to be loved, he needs to be seen. He needs more, more, more. This guy is, he just has a business side, and he's all about business and revenge, you know what I mean? You know, but they still have what I like to put in all my characters which is a very strong "pleasure principle," which means that, whatever they're doing, they enjoy it, you know? They get that utmost fulfillment from it. But no, this guy is just much more of a straight, straight line, a straight-lacer. Cadillac is the guy who dances around. He takes more time with his interrogation and things like that. With Manta, he's got other things to do.

Do you do any sort of accent for Manta? Do you have a regular American accent, or any other way of speaking?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Well, I didn't place him in a particular region. But I think you would notice some different things about my own character in my vocal carriage and things like that, that would be different from what I would sound like in an interview, or what I would sound like on some of the other things that I've done, things like that, and that's been fun. That's been a challenge too, because, "How do I want this guy to sound?" you know, where do I want him to lie on the age spectrum, how cool is he, how in-touch is he with himself, and what does he care about, all that informs how he sounds to me, and that's all. I'm excited about it.

Are you wearing the scars as well?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Not going to comment on that.

We've heard a lot about how the events on the submarine that shapes the relationship between Manta and Aquaman, so if you could share your perspective that relationship?

aquaman-movie-amber-heard-james-wan-jason-momoa
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: We meet Black Manta at a time where, it's just him and his dad, and he's riding on high, you know. He's just come off of his win, and there's a changing of the guards, so to speak. And then, this guy, Aquaman, comes in, and crashes the party. So, for Black Manta, it's not necessarily a bad thing. It’s an opportunity, "I just got this promotion, let me go prove myself, and step myself up and, you know, step it up once more." So, in that first confrontation, you know, I'd like to think that Black Manta's very excited about, "Okay, what it's going to be like? This is that guy from around the way, who I've been hearing all these things about. And he's supposed to be a badass, and now is my time to go show him who the real badass is around these parts." And he's riding on high, and at the climax, he loses his father. And so, we meet him at a time when he's just, he's on top and then, bam, immediately, an event happens, and he's at the bottom. And he's lost the only person who he's ever loved, and cared for, and been able to show any type of, you know, expression, or those types of characteristics to. And then, from then on, you know, "It's Aquaman's fault!" He has very little else to live for, and so it becomes that revenge story. You have the relationship between fathers and sons, and the revenge that happens when a son loses his father, and then you have Aquaman, who is the heir to the throne, who doesn't want to be king, so it's an epic story.

When researching the role, did you go back to the comics? What did you discover about the character that helped inform you in going forward?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: I always say that I was... Manta, like, the moment when I sat back and I said, "Oh, this is the guy that I'm dealing with." You know, with Cadillac, the moment that I sat back and I said, "Oh, this is the guy that I'm dealing with," was when I saw his clothes. And I saw that he would wear this white suit, and he had the rings, and the chains, and all the animal print, and I said, "Oh! Oh, this is the guy!" And so, you know, he's got the audacity to do that. With Black Manta, I saw him, I was reading the comic, "The Others," and he drove a blade through someone, though -- I forget her name -- through one of the characters. But he murdered someone. And in my experience, in comics, they're blowing people up to smithereens, or they'll use their powers and they'll shoot you off to the moon and you'll explode. And he was like, "You know, I don't have time for that. I'm going to take my knife, and I would drive it through you, while telling you that the next thing that I'm going to do is to go murder your family also." So, I said, "Oh, this guy is... he's not like the other children." So, you know, and then, so I take that, and then now the task becomes, "Well, how do I do that?" How do I, like, what was the thing that scared me about that moment? What was the thing that was so intriguing about that moment? And how do I pass that on to different moments in the script? That's been my task, and then I try to do that in a way that's charismatic, in a way that, you know, where the audiences want to see a little bit more. And then the other challenge is, how do I make them root for me? Because, I have to say, "This is the guy." I have to say that, "I am how I am, because Aquaman did not help me. Don't you all see this?" Like, "Isn't Aquaman such a bad guy?" You know? "Poor me, I have to go through my life now without a father, and now with this grudge that Aquaman gave me. He put me in a situation. Let's go get him! Don't I deserve a little bit of vengeance? Shouldn't I feel good about something? Wah!"

Speaking of the blade, I mean, we got to go to the weapons department, we got to see kind of what he's working with within that suit, and what's the training been like for the action?

aquaman-fisherman-king-movie
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: We came in, and I went through a pretty challenging, but exciting weightlifting program, and started doing that. I put on about 12 pounds, which was pretty exciting; I've never been as heavy as I kind of am right now. I've jogged a little bit, but I've never gotten up to that size, which has been exciting. Also, the fighting. We're working with JV and his team, and those guys are just amazing, 87 Eleven. And, so we came in, and they taught me a lot of the sword stuff, and how to do some rolls, and fight choreography. And Jason is off the hook with that. He's learning most of the stuff that you'll see in this movie. He's learning it on the day. I thought I was pretty good, but I watched him, and I'm like, "Oh, yeah. You have a whole career of just kicking people's ass!" you know what I mean? And then being me in a daze like that. But it's fun, it's rigorous, but they're so talented. I mean, I see them, those guys working, and they're so, so talented. And I know they're really going to help me and everybody else to look good in the film. And I know when the time comes, I have no problem shouting them out and giving them the credit, because they really deserve it.

Do you ever get intimidated by Jason? Just, like, "That's a big dude."

ABDUL-MATEEN II: No! No, Jason is a teddy bear! He's a solid dude, and he loves his kids. What I didn't know was that he was a passionate artist. He talks about painting and music, and things like that, and I'm like, "Oh, you?" I was really excited, but we created something here that's like a brotherhood, and we talk about the movies. He's so passionate about the story, and about what he wants to do next, and where to take it in. We bounce off our ideas, and feel something good, and then run around the room like, "Oh yeah! We got to do that! We got to take it through the roof, bro!" But we're excited. We know that we're making something special, and we know that it's going to take a team to do it.

So what sets Manta apart from antagonists, other villains?

aquaman-movie-amber-heard-jason-momoa
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Well, I'd like to describe him, to me, he can be so annoying, I think, because he's so vigilant. He's so relentless. And so, in a fight, he's never down, and he's never out. And you think that he's done, but he comes back. And it's like, "Hey, I finished you! I proved my point! I'm stronger than you. Stop it! Stop it! Stop it! Why are you still here?" You know? If you think about him, I mean, he doesn't want to take over the world, he doesn't have this grand scheme of, like, monopolizing something for his own personal benefit, he's very much on the line. And so, he has this very strong moral code that he will not compromise, and that he will not negotiate on, and when it's tied to something like his father being dead, you know, his father dying, he's just a guy who will stop at nothing to get the revenge that he wants.

Would you say that's his greatest weakness?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Well, no, I wouldn't go as far to say that is his greatest weakness, but it definitely blinds sometimes, which I think every character needs that. Every character needs to, well, I think the fun ones, you know. It's a fun opportunity to obsess over something so much, that you can't see some of the other stuff, you know. And so, I'm looking forward to the opportunity to finding those opportunities to make him vulnerable at the same time, to let people in and, you know, show some cracks, so that, you let those people in and get them on your team, and then you got two people, "Aaahhh!"

What else is likeable about him, would you say, besides the audience kind of feeling bad for him? If there's anything?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: What's likeable? I think that everybody likes the bad guy. I think they have, or the quote-unquote "bad" guy. I never call my bad guy "bad guy," that's up to everybody else, right? But, I think they have fun. I think he's hilarious.

You do? Why?

jason-momoa-aquaman-movie
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: I don't think that he himself believes that he's funny, but he... I've also, like, read through the Suicide Squad. And so, he was hilarious to me in that, because he's breaking up fights between Harley Quinn and Deadshot, and he has this... he's always angry, you know what I mean? It makes it very easy to crack jokes on him or to make, like, you know, he's the guy to hate. "Lighten up! It's not that serious," you know? Like, "You're just a little bit high-strung," you know what I mean?

That's funny.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: And so, I think it's fun, I think he's the guy who can be in pretty fun predicaments, you know? You take a guy like that, and you put him at a bar with the rest of the guys, and he just wants to be, he wants to be out of there. He wants to be killing someone, or he wants to be doing something, anything other than socializing right now. But he has to be at this bar, because he's babysitting two people who are going to tear themselves up. He's also not extremely loyal either, you know. He will look out for himself and take any opportunity to further his own agenda, and I think that's hilarious also, you know. He's looking out for himself in this. So I think those are all fun qualities and characteristics that can prove for situational humor in days like that also.

Seems like there's a lot of different tones to the movie, with like romance, comedy, action, there are a whole bunch of it, and I was wondering, since James has done so many different types of things, and even horror seems to be working into this. I was wondering if you could talk a little bit about what his direction has been like with those different types of scenes that you may have been involved with, the different types of tones.

aquaman-nicole-kidman-image
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Yeah, for the things that I've been involved in, most of it has really been, it's been a mixture of action, and then drama. The things that I've shot already was the submarine scene, the submarine sequence. So we have to tell the relationship between a father and a son, and those high moments and those low moments that I was talking about. The emotionality of a loss, the adrenaline rush of just coming off a really big win, you know. So, he's able to use his storytelling to make those moments ring true, and then in the next moment now, it's about hitting those archetypes, about making sure that the shapes are sharp, and making sure that these storytelling beats are on point, and that it looks good. That's just one of the things about James is that his work is going to look good, like, no matter what. And that's why I love working on this nugget. I could just be free, and do what I'm going to do, and trust James, because I know, at the end of the day, if doing my job, James is going to make it look good. He can do action, he's very funny. He's like a big kid also, so he's exciting, and he works at a really high level of... he's an excellent storyteller, so it's safe.

Does it help doing the submarine sequence early in the shoot, so you could kind of build on that emotionally, for direction?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: A little bit, I mean, actually, just yesterday, I think this is natural with any actor, is just yesterday, I was like, "Oh, that's how that line went." But you know, that's all that we, we'll have what we have. I'll save that for part two, you know?

How completely do you think this tells character story versus leaving the door open for future storylines?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: I think my involvement in this film will definitely be one where we get an introduction to him, and it's not an extremely heavy dose, but it is one that's going to crack the door open and say, "Oh, well there's a lot of different ways, a lot of different areas for him to go." I mean, he's definitely not a guy who's just here for a short time, and just going to disappear. I think we try to talk about him as a guy who has the potential to be a pretty big force within the world.

One of the things that... James is really good with moving camera, and doing really cool shots. Has he done anything really cool with the camera with you?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: I got a pretty dope introduction. Yeah. I got a pretty dope introduction, which is actually... my introduction might have been the first shot that we shot on the film. And it's pretty dope.

Are you talking about, like, a 360 camera kind of spin?

aquaman-movie-jason-momoa
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: It's pretty dope. There is one that's really cool, like, that's maybe, like, 18-second 360 shot, that's just, like, bodies dropping and everything, and that one is, like, that's a pretty dope one.

What's it like filming underwater?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: You know, I haven't gotten to participate in that just yet, so, I imagine that it's really cool, but I've been inside of the sub, so I need to stop by the set one of those days. But I've seen the... have you all seen the mini trailer that they showed at Comic-Con? And how about that underwater world, right? I saw that, I think, just yesterday. And I'm like, "Oh, my god!" And it was, there's not even nothing. It's just 5 seconds, or less than 10 seconds of the scale of that world, so I'm excited. I'm just excited to see it, and to go by when it's my turn, I'm going in there and let loose with all that blue screen, and all my blue screen training, and men in tight blue suits carrying me and all that!

Can you pop up in other DC films?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Well, yeah, I mean, this character, he's all over the canon. He's in Suicide Squad, we see him in the cartoons, we see him in Young Justice, we see him in... he's all over the place, in way that he can get to his means to an end. Right, if you see Aquaman in Justice League, then, you know, it'll make sense for Black Manta to say, "Hey! What you doing?" Pop his head in, wherever he is, he can justify making it his business. I'm looking forward to living long within the DC world, and create a little bit of chaos.

Have you done any scenes with Patrick Wilson yet, as Orm?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: No, I haven't. But that dude is good, man! First day I worked, or the first day that he worked -- I wasn't working that day, but I came by just to check him out -- Man, I saw him work, I walked in, and I see him up there in all his glory, I dropped to my knees, I put my hands up. He was shooting, so I had to cover my mouth, and I'm like, "Ohh!" That's what it was like! Like, "How am I here? How am I doing this movie?" Because it looks so good, and then you see him, and he's intense, and, it's like, "Oh! That's the movie that we're making!" Okay, I'm really going to go back and do my homework! You know what I mean? It's like, "Oh! Oh, that's the game that we're playing. I didn't know that, okay. I'm so sorry! Give me 10 minutes..." So that's the party that we're going to! I'm sorry! I'll go change my clothes! Now, I'm ready. You know what I'm saying? But we have some stuff together that's going to be pretty important moments in the film.

So, also to get you up to speed, we already talked about Jason being shirtless in this movie. So, you being in this, like, badass costume, is that freeing for you? Like, not having to do that whole shirtless bit?

aquaman-movie-jason-momoa
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: No, that's not so, because I was like, "Yeah! I don't really got to work out that hard to do all that stuff!" So I'm working hard for the training, because the suit is tough to carry. The suit is tough. There was the first suit, that was tough to carry. And then the second suit is, like, a beast to carry, to do all that stuff in. So, we're working hard at things, and then we do the screen test, and it's like, "Hey, I want you to just try this!" and I'm all, "Okay!" "We got this jumper, I want you to zip it down." I'm like, "Okay, here we go." I kind of see James's head pop up from behind the monitor, "Hey! Yeah, why don't you just take it down, and just tie it around your waist, and see what others think." "Okay, I'll just do that." Maybe throw a couple of punches and things! Okay, cool, let's just turn around, do something...

Exactly, that's what I thought of it that way.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: So, yeah, I think we worked a situation into there, where I'm going to do my thing too. Hopefully, I mean, I better, because I'm working out, I'm doing all this stuff, and then you hide it from, like, from head to toe, or neck to... I'm like, "C'mon, man!"

What's it like seeing out of that helmet?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Oh, you can't see. You can't see! You got, like, 20% vision or something like that, you know. If you look out of the top, and it's just so well-made, it's so well-made. It's made to look good, it's made to function for me, up to a certain degree, but other than that, the helmet just looks badass. It looks just right. But if you do like this, then you're looking up too high; if you look down there, it looks like he's sad. He's got this badass body, but his head is down, because I'm trying to see, and it's like, "Manta looks sad all the time!"

What does your voice sound like when you talk through the suit?

justice-league-movie-image-aquaman-9
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: We haven't figured that out yet. I mean, I do some things with it, but we're still working out what that's going to be. Which is funny, because I posted something on my Twitter, I'm not sure if anyone's seen, but my Instagram and my Twitter, I kind of tease all the fans, and said that I was leaking the suit, well, yesterday. So, like, all the fans were, "Oh, okay! He's going to do it, he's going to do it, he's going to do it!" and I just, I troll them so hard. I put up something else. I mean, check it out on my Instagram or my Twitter. But that's kind of going crazy right now. And one of the things I did was I made a video, and I put on, like, a modulator or something like that. So, a lot of people were saying, "Oh! Black Manta actor releases the voice!" And I'm like, "No, I just went and found it, and I pressed that one. And it's on 'Darth Vader' or something." But yeah, we're still figuring that out.

So, if you were at a bar with Black Manta, having drinks, what piece of advice would you give him?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: I wouldn't sit next to that motherfucker! I would not... You don't give that man no advice, he's not going to take it! I try to give you something back for that as an answer, but I'm like, "No, no, I'm not going to sit next to him!" It's just crazy, because I'm a fan of him. It's interesting being a fan, but the way that I experience him as a reader, and the way that I experience him when I watch him on comics and things like that, is not at all how I'm playing this guy. So, it's very interesting being a fan of him, and also feeling like I know some things, but then learning completely different things about him as I bring him to life.

So, what is that like, to kind of have that kind of disconnect between, you know, your knowledge of the character from being a fan, to be the same character, but in almost a completely different way?

aquaman-movie-jason-momoa
Image via Warner Bros.

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Well, one is about... My performance, I believe, is about my duty to the script, and my duty to the story that we're trying to tell, and I try to do that in a way that is true, in a way that's going to hold up the script, and that's going to be fun for the viewers to watch. And in the way that I read comics, I get to feel like a kid, and I get to laugh at these guys, and poke fun at things, and I get to judge them in things like that, so I get to experience him however I decide to. And so, I think, as a reader, and as I watch him, that's more of a fantastical world, and things like that, and there's more fun. And then, the negotiation is to say, "Okay, now let's select some of those things, and make sure that I put those there." But it is kind of even fascinating to me. I don't do it on purpose, it's just that one brings out a kid in me, and one brings out a very different, very different thing. It's fun playing with that negotiation.

Have you been able to talk to Geoff Johns about the character much?

ABDUL-MATEEN II: Yeah, I have. We sat down a couple of weeks ago, when I was in Los Angeles. He's a big fan of the character. He loves him, and he's seen some stuff, and he's liked what he's seen thus far, and so, yeah, he's really... I mean, I was really excited to get across the table from him, and talk about the character, and just pick his brain about some of his ideas, and say, "Oh, okay, okay. I kind of see what you're doing. This is where I think I'll also start." We actually sat down, and we were pretty much in line with a lot of the ideas.

Aquaman will be in theaters December 21st, 2018. For more coverage from our set visit check out the links below.