In the latest episode of The CW series Arrow, entitled “Spectre of the Gun,” a traumatic attack on City Hall triggers painful memories for Rene (Rick Gonzalez) about his family, leading to flashbacks that reveal how he evolved into Wild Dog. And in a new twist for Oliver Queen (Stephen Amell), he must deal with the perpetrator behind the attack as Mayor Queen instead of the Green Arrow.
After a screening of the episode that was held at The CW offices, executive producers Marc Guggenheim (who also wrote “Spectre of the Gun”) and Wendy Mericle talked to a handful of outlets about what brought this episode about, at this point in time, how the studio and network felt about doing such a different episode for the show, why now was the right time to tell Rene’s backstory, exploring both sides of the gun debate, whether Katie Cassidy might return again, before the end of this season, and the challenge of working out time with the actors who aren’t series regulars. Be aware that there are some spoilers discussed.
Question: What brought this episode about, at this point in time?
MARC GUGGENHEIM: We went into Season 5, wanting to do an episode about an issue. I’m old, so that means I grew up on St. Elsewhere, Picket Fences and L.A. Law. I grew up in a time when it was commonplace, literally every week, for a one-hour drama to tackle the issues of the day. Somewhere along the line, the industry got away from that. Now, you’ve got Black-ish and The Carmichael Show, but as far as network dramas are concerned, they’re really not tackling current events and current issues. So, we went into Season 5 going, “You know what? It’s the fifth season. We’ve hopefully earned the freedom, in 23 episodes of television, to have 22 pieces of candy and one episode of vegetables.” We felt that gun violence was the right topic because of its topicality, but also because of the level of gun violence that is on Arrow. We could have done an episode on abortion, but that’s not really where the show lives. Gun violence felt like the right thing to tackle. So, we knew we were going to do it, and we knew we were probably going to do it in the second half of the season, just because of all of the pipe laying that has to happen in the first half of the season.
WENDY MERICLE: We knew, when we were talking about the mayor’s office, that there was an opportunity to do an episode where he didn’t get into the Green Arrow costume. From a story perspective, it was also about figuring out how to solve the issue of the day or the problem of the week with Oliver Queen as the mayor, instead of gearing up as the Green Arrow. The other thing, when Marc and I talked about doing it, and we talked about doing potentially more episodes like this, going forward, was the idea that you want to start a conversation. It’s what Curtis says, in the episode, which is that it’s important to at least talk about this. At some point, we did get away from that, as a country, and we liked the idea of hearing both sides, as fairly as possible.
Because this is a different type of episode for the show, did you receive more notes than usual, or was there anything you had to cut out?
GUGGENHEIM: The studio and network were so unbelievably supportive of this episode, from the very beginning. At the beginning of the season, we told them that we wanted to do a gun violence episode, and they were like, “Great!” There was a plot twist, regarding Edlund’s motivations, that was in the original conception and even in the first draft of the script, that the studio talked us out of, not because it was controversial or they were scared of it. Both the studio and network were incredibly fearless in their support of this episode. It was actually because the plot twist sent a message very different from the one we were trying to send. But there was no, “This is too much,” or “This is too far.” We got the usual S&P notes, in terms of the gun violence, but nothing was compromised. This is very much the episode we intended to do.
MERICLE: They were excited about it. They liked it. They welcomed that it was taking on an issue, which we hadn’t done before, on this show. They were genuinely very enthusiastic and excited.
GUGGENHEIM: I don’t think Wendy and I have taken on an issue on television since Eli Stone, which is nearly 10 years ago, and a long time ago.
Did you write this before or after the election results?
GUGGENHEIM: This was totally not by design and completely accidental, but I wrote the first half of the script before November 7th, and the second half of the script after November 7th. That week, I was writing the script. I write chronologically and linearly, and I think you can see that, in the second half, it’s about guns and gun violence, but it’s also about the state of discourse in our country. I’m an unapologetic progressive, but the thing that I’ve noticed is that not talking about issues serves a conservative agenda, not a liberal agenda. I do agree with Curtis that the country is where it is right now because we stopped talking to each other.
Was it important to you, in this episode, to explore Star City, politically, as part of the United States?
GUGGENHEIM: Yeah. Obviously, gun control is more of a national issue than it is a local issue. It’s not even a state issue because he’s not the governor, he’s just the mayor. So, in the writing of the actual script and the dialogue, I kept trying to find those opportunities to evoke the idea of the country, rather than just the city.
What made Rene the right person to do the flashbacks with, for this particular episode?
MERICLE: I think it was that he was someone whose background we really wanted to explore, and he carries a gun and is a natural spokesman for that point of view.
GUGGENHEIM: We could have done it through any number of our characters. I think there was a real appetite for us and the writing staff to do flashbacks from the perspective of one of our recruits, so that we get to learn more about them. We know a lot about Curtis, obviously. Rory left the team in Episode 512. Evelyn had betrayed the team, and we already knew her backstory from Season 4. Rene felt like the right recruit at the right time. He’s a character whose whole superheroics revolve around guns.
Was it also a testing ground for when Oliver’s flashbacks run out?
GUGGENHEIM: We’ve been doing the non-island flashbacks since Season 1, so we feel like we’ve done the testing ground, and we love those flashbacks.
MERICLE: It was more of a testing ground for the recruits and whether we would be able to generate enough story and be interested in those stories, from the perspective of those characters. And going forward, given that we won’t have the island to go to and the flashbacks for Oliver, we know we can use it for other characters. It’s a device that’s well-established on this show, and we know we can go to that well when we need to.
It seems obvious to have Rene be the character that’s pro-gun, but was it just as obvious to have Curtis be the other viewpoint to that?
MERICLE: I feel like the clearest person who would be opposed is Lance. Police, as a rule, tend to not want criminals to have guns. They’re all for minimizing things. They’re a little more for gun control, as a cohesive group in society.
GUGGENHEIM: Felicity being the one to say, “Stop talking about this,” came out in the writing. In the first half, before Trump got elected, it was me trying to keep the show from descending into this back-and-forth debate. As a writer, it was helpful to have a character going, “Stop debating!” But then, once Trump got elected, I realized that her saying, “Stop debating!,” was speaking for another segment of the population, which is the segment that considers talking about politics to be impolitic. It’s not something you’re supposed to discuss in polite company. When did that happen? The thesis statement of that scene she has with Curtis is that, whether you voted for Trump or not, the only thing we can agree on, as Americans, is that the country is as fractured now as it’s ever been, since the Civil War. My point of view and suggestion, as a writer, is that it happened because we stopped talking to each other.
Will we see Katie Cassidy again, before the end of the season?
GUGGENHEIM: I’ll be honest, I can’t answer that because we have an idea for how to see her again, but we haven’t made a deal with her. She’s not a series regular anymore, so we have to make a contract with her and she’s gotta be available. We haven’t had those conversations, but we do have an idea and we know exactly what we do want to do. You now know more than Katie does, in terms of her involvement before the end of the season.
Will we see Evelyn back to wrap up her story?
GUGGENHEIM: You’ll see her again.
MERICLE: But not in the way you think you’ll see her. It’s going to be a pretty fun reveal.
GUGGENHEIM: We actually have some surprises up our sleeves.
Rory has just left the team. Is that a natural process of narrowing down the recruits, or will we see him come back?
MERICLE: We’ve left the door open for him.
GUGGENHEIM: We’ve talked about Rory coming back. There’s a whole system of actors and availability. Everyone is like, “Where’s Thea?!” Well, Willa [Holland] is 14 out of 23 episodes, this season. She’s not in all 23. That’s not her contract, so we’ve had to write around that. Joe [Dinicol] isn’t a series regular, so just like with Katie Cassidy, we’ve gotta go to Joe and make sure that he’s available. All of these network seasons coincide with pilot season, and people are busy doing pilots. It’s actually one of the reasons we make the kind of deals we make. Part of it is money, but part of it is also making sure certain actors are available to us. It’s complicated. We try to make the process invisible, in terms of our storytelling, but there are just human realities and contractual realities that not only tie our hands, but tie the hands of everyone running a show, these days. Unless you’re Game of Thrones and you can literally afford to hold people for an entire year, for ungodly sums of money.
Arrow airs on Wednesday nights on The CW.
