Collider's own Steve Weintraub recently sat down with prolific screenwriter, producer, and director Akiva Goldsman for a wide-ranging chat about his work from the past to the present and yes, even the future. One thing we here at Collider have been jonesing to talk about with Goldsman is his work on the seminal '90s Batman movies directed by Joel Schumacher, 1995's Batman Forever, starring Val Kilmer as Bruce Wayne, and 1997's Batman & Robin, starring George Clooney as Bruce and Chris O'Donnell as Robin.

As a co-screenwriter on Batman Forever (alongside Lee and Janet Scott Batchler) and sole screenwriter on Batman & Robin, Goldsman's imprint on both of these '90s Batman movie is indelible. Combined with Schumacher's vision for the world of Batman, these two movies represent a significantly different version of Batman's movie world that had been seen before or since. So, what does Goldsman recall, exactly, when he thinks back to his time working on both Batman Forever and Batman & Robin? As Goldsman tells it,

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Image via Warner Bros.

"You know, it's complicated because I think, in a funny way, this show that Geoff Johns and I created, Titans, is kind of my apology tour for Batman & Robin because it was heady and extraordinary. I'm a deep, deep, deep, deep old comic book fan and so, the opportunity to get to them and to play in them was amazing. And, as you said, it was a different time; things that did last, you really wish had [lasted]."

Goldsman also took a moment to reveal one key Batman Forever story arc which was ultimately cut but which he feels would have helped make the movie that much better. He recalled, "For me, Batman Forever was all about Bruce finding his father's journal and in it it said, 'Martha and I want to stay home tonight, but Bruce insists on going to see a movie,' and you discover it was all [Bruce], he's been holding on to the guilt all the way through about being responsible for his parents' deaths. None of that makes the cut because we shot it and we tested it, and the audience was not interested in the psychological component of the drama at that point. That was not what they were coming to comic book movies for."

And what exactly are Goldsman's thoughts on Batman & Robin, a movie which has become a curious artifact in the Batman movie canon because it's, well, super campy? The Batman & Robin scribe offered, "As for Batman & Robin, that one just confused me. I mean, we didn't mean for it to be bad. I swear, nobody was like, 'This will be bad.' We were really thinking... I mean, here's the irony: There was a reel that was put together halfway through [filming] where it actually looked dark in an interesting way. It just is what it is and I'm sorry. I think we're all sorry."

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Image via Warner Bros. Pictures

On the heels of this slight apology (no need, Mr. Goldsman, we still love Batman & Robin no matter what), he did remark upon the fickle nature of movie-making: "It is alchemy. I always used to say it's like painting by lightning. It's like a mural that you're painting and every time the lightning flashes, you paint, and then the sun rises and you're like, 'Ooh!' or 'Oh, god.' It's magic. Obviously, if it were predictable, if it were manageable in any real way, then we'd only make good movies. [...] That is the terror and the joy of it because you don't work any less hard on the ones that don't land."

Sure, looking back on Batman movies of yore is fun, but what about the upcoming Caped Crusader feature The Batman starring Robert Pattinson and directed by Matt Reeves? Reeves' vision for the new Batman story is reportedly much darker than those '90s Batman entries — despite Goldsman aiming for a more psychologically complex angle — as Reeves attempts to carve out a new niche in the Dark Knight's onscreen canon with a tale focused on a younger Bruce Wayne. When asked to share his thoughts about Reeves wading into the Batman world, Goldsman was nothing but complimentary, happily and candidly telling Collider,

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Image via Warner Bros.

"Matt Reeves, I think, is so insanely talented and I think Robert Pattinson is terrific. For me, the key to this is Matt. Have you ever seen the pilot of Felicity? Matt directed it, J.J. [Abrams] wrote it, and it hums in this extraordinary way. From then, I have admired Matt as  a director. I just think he's literate, he's articulate emotionally, he's can cinematically virtuosic. For me, I can't wait to see [The Batman]."

You can check out all of Akiva Goldsman's Batman chat below. For more, check out our complete cast and character guide for The Batman and get even more Batman updates here.

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