If you are still recovering from Better Call Saul‘s Season 4 finale, you may not be ready to hear what the show’s EP Thomas Schnauz — who co-wrote “Winner” with co-creator Peter Gould — has to say about the show moving forward: “Things are definitely going to get darker.” How is that even possible? The final scene of “Winner,” which seemed to be the moment that Jimmy McGill (Bob Odenkirk) became Saul Goodman was one of the most emotionally devastating on television this year. It was the saddest reveal we could have imagined that didn’t take place inside a Cinnabon in Omaha. How does it get darker?
In speaking with TVLine, Schnauz revealed quite a few interesting tidbits, and if you’re a fan of the series I definitely encourage you to go and read the entire interview. But as for some highlights; when it comes to Jimmy’s transformation into Saul, Schnauz confirmed that while it’s been something they thought they might hit at the end of Season 1 and have just played it out longer and longer, it came at the right time here.
“Certainly after the death of Chuck, we thought it was a big turning point, and it still took longer than we thought for him to become Saul Goodman, because other things had to happen. It wasn’t just the death of his brother, and his role in that death, that turns him into Saul Goodman. It’s the suppression of that guilt, and so many other things going on, that finally snaps him in the end. And even though he says, “It’s all good, man” at the end of Season 4, he is not the Saul Goodman we know in Breaking Bad. There’s still a road to go down to get him to that point. But the world of Walter White and Gus Fring and Mike are creeping into Jimmy/Saul’s world, so it will get darker. Things are definitely going to get darker.”
As for Kim (Rhea Seehorn), who fans have also been worried for pretty much since the beginning, Schnauz said that the reveal of Jimmy’s insincerity won’t necessarily be enough to drive her away. After all, they’ve run scams together before, and she knows he’s still suppressing emotions about Chuck. Describing her as a “fixer” who still loves Jimmy, Schnauz also said, “the thing we’re going to find out is if Chuck McGill was right. He had a warning to Kim in Season 2. He said to her in one episode, ‘He’s gonna drag you down.’ We need to see if that’s going to happen.”
Like I need any more anxiety with this show … Schnauz also talked about that sweet cold open, and how it was an opportunity to see Chuck taking care of Jimmy for a change. Whether or not that was ultimately a catalyst for Jimmy’s breakdown in the HHM garage or not is uncertain, but it seems to be a possibility given that he quoted that “winner takes it all” sentiment to the student, Christi, in his bitter speech. “I think if you ask Bob [Odenkirk], there are different theories as to why the crying scene happens in the HHM garage, but I think in Bob’s opinion, it’s the fact that he’s become that person who gives that kind of advice to people. That’s who he is, and in that moment, it’s sad to him,” Schnauz said.
As for Mike (Jonathan Banks) and that horribly sad ending with Werner, the EP confirmed that this was a lesson for Mike about half-measures. But as far as the introduction of Lalo, “We’re definitely going to see more of him. He is a thorn in Gus Fring’s side, and there are a lot of secrets rolling around with Gus and Nacho and Mike. He’s very smart, and he’s ruthless, and I think it’s a good person for us the writers to have around, to make things interesting,” he said.
Moving forward, Schnauz said he would like to see more crossover among the stories, which all definitely operated in their own space this season: “If I could wish for one thing right now, it’s that the streams would start crossing a little more, and we’d see more crossover with Jimmy and Mike, and those worlds coming together, which I think we’re moving towards. Jimmy and Nacho haven’t seen each other since Season 1, and we want to mix those worlds back up, too.”