It's rare these days to spy Andy Serkis on a movie set when he's not in a motion-capture suit and/or performance-capture rig. His most famous roles in recent years have been the mysterious and powerful Supreme Leader Snoke in the recent Star Wars films, the impressive leader Caesar in the Planet of the Apes film series, and, of course, as Gollum in The Hobbit The Lord of the Rings films. The last time a sizable audience got to see Serkis in his own skin was back in 2015's Avengers: Age of Ultron as the villainous Ulysses Klaue, a.k.a. Klaw, a mercenary who ended up on the wrong side of that film's murderous robot. He survived (barely) and is now back to antagonize the heroes of Marvel's Black Panther.

During a set visit just about a year ago, our group of gathered journalists got to see Serkis in action opposite co-star Martin Freeman in an interrogation chamber while Chadwick Boseman and Danai Gurira looked on from behind safety glass. Their interactions were cut short by the explosive arrival of Michael B. Jordan's character Erik Killmonger, followed by an action-packed sequence that became clearer once it was all edited together and revealed in recent trailers for the upcoming Marvel film. But once the dust cleared and everyone's heart-rates settled back down, we had a chance to chat with Serkis about his return to the MCU, the personality traits the make up Klaw, and just what his relationship is with Wakanda and the family that rules over it.

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Image via Marvel Studios

How long have you known that you were going to be part of this movie? 

Andy Serkis: Klaw appears in Age of Ultron, and the way that all happened was, they were working with The Imaginarium, which is my performance-capture studio. We were all working and consulting back on Ultron, working with James Spader and Mark Ruffalo and initiating them into the process of motion-capture because they were both using performance-capture. We were providing services for that.

Then, Joss Whedon said, “Hey, this is crazy, why don’t you come and be in the show?” And I thought, “Oh, alright, that’d be fun.”

So that happened and then, of course, when this came along, I knew that he was part of the Black Panther story. It’s just really great being back.

What has Klaw been up to since Age of Ultron?

Serkis: Well he’s just basically been causing mayhem in the world, on minor and major levels. He’s a smart guy in the sense that he’s a businessman as well as an arms dealer. He manages to cover his tracks. He has a mercenary army that works with him in different locations all around the world and he’s able to go down rabbit holes and appear in other places. He’s got the smarts, but he’s also a little whacked out.

Is there a different level of connection that you’re able to get with this character? Is there a difference from motion capture?

Serkis: No, I think everyone knows now really that, at the end of the day, it’s just acting and it doesn’t really matter what you’re wearing, it’s just another costume. You’re looking into another actor’s eyes and you’re communicating with them and you’re playing the role that you’re playing, whether it’s an ape or a human or whatever.

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Image via Marvel Studios

How did you come to that particular voice?

Serkis: We decided that Klaw, we would make him South African, a very strong Afrikaans, quite bullish, in a very … edging towards not being a politically correct person. [laughs] He’d fit in the White House quite perfectly. [laughs] I didn’t say that! … or, in fact, in Britain at the moment.

No, it was quite a smart decision, I think. It gives him a real edge. Also, because of the relationship to Wakanda as well, a misunderstood African nation, it fits very well politically that he was of South African descent at a time when, of course, he grew up through Apartheid.

Are Klaw and Killmonger working together against T’Challa?

Serkis: Klaw doesn’t really trust or work with anybody; he is his own man. He does deals with people, he interacts, but he doesn’t form allegiances or alliances with anyone. Ultimately, he’s a lone wolf. He has these pop-up groups wherever he happens to be in the world. So he and Killmonger aren’t working together, as such.

Are we going to see a closer iteration of Klaw to the comics?

Serkis: We’ve established the character and our version of Klaw in Ultron. He obviously had his arm chopped off and he has a weapon, which we will discover.

What kind of balance are you able to find with Klaw to make him a full character?

Serkis: I think, hopefully, he’s quite grounded. I think he’s not the one color, he’s different shades. He’s got a humorous side to him, he’s got a sense of humor, but he’s equally very deadly and he’s quite mercurial and transitions emotionally very quickly. He turns on a sixpence. He can be, outwardly, friendly to some people or funny or amusing, and then turn. He definitely feels grounded; there’s a darkness to him that grounds him.

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Image via Marvel Studios

What stands out about Black Panther and how Ryan Coogler works?

Serkis: In the short time that I’ve worked with Ryan, which is literally two days [laughs], he creates the most incredible atmosphere on set. He’s very subtle actors’ director; he knows what he wants but he allows you to play and explore with the other cast members, and then gives great, very specific notes. I was told, actually, because of course Martin Freeman I’ve worked with before in … what was it … The Hobbit. [laughs]. We’ve kind of faced each other there. We were emailing each other before I came down and Martin said, “Ryan loves the freedom of what actors give and then bouncing back and circling around.” So there really is a great deal of play in this, which is really exciting.

In the scene you’re working on, what is Klaw’s first reaction to seeing T’Challa walk in the door?

Serkis: He’s aware that … it’s not a great surprise.

How does your on-camera work compare to recent work you’ve done behind the camera?

Serkis: I’m actually right in the middle of posting two films at the moment, as well. [Editor's note: This was January 2017.] This is actually great. I’m really enjoying not having those responsibilities. I’m right in the thick of it with Jungle Book that I’m in post on, and another small independent film that I directed called Breathe with Andrew Garfield and Claire Foy, who turned in the most amazing performances.

When I was on Jungle Book … I’m not the sort of actor/director who likes to direct himself as an actor, if you like. I don’t like to split my skills. I love coming in and just digging straight into the character and getting into it. Lots of actors do direct themselves in movies, it’s just not my thing. I like to concentrate on one or the other and just bury myself into that world.

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Image via Marvel Studios

In the movie version of Klaw, will we see a longstanding connection with Wakanda?

Serkis: He’s got a very specific relationship to Wakanda. He’s got a bit of a love/hate relationship with it, really. He certainly has discovered things about it that nobody else has, and we discover that in this movie. He’s one of the few people who’s been into Wakanda and he reveals quite a lot about it.

Does he have a personal relationship with T’Challa?

Serkis: He doesn’t really have a personal relationship with anyone, but they’ve definitely crossed paths. They spar. [laughs]

What was a new quality about the character that allowed you to play another side of him?

Serkis: In this one, there’s quite a lot more humor, actually, which is great. It’s that thing where you don’t know whether he’s enjoying this, or playing at enjoying this, whether he’s really laughing or just hiding behind it. It’s very interesting the way Ryan and the writers have put it together.

Does Klaw recognize himself as a villain, or the hero of his own story?

Serkis: He thinks what he’s doing is existing in this world in the way that he’s created his own moral relativity. He’s quite nihilistic, he’s squared it with himself, he knows life is cheap and you’re either at the bottom of the pile or the top of the pile, and that’s it. It’s very, very simple. It’s quite clear to him where his moral compass is. What he doesn’t like is hypocrisy; he absolutely despises hypocrisy. So uncovering that is definitely part of the way I’m playing him.

Can you talk about what Klaw is doing in South Korea?

Serkis: At this point in time, Klaw’s been caught. He’s being held and interrogated. They’re trying to, basically, work out what he’s trying to do.

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Image via Marvel Studios

Are you able to use the comics as source material for your performance?

Serkis: With all of these, it’s about how you expand on a character and bring your take on it. Obviously some of the plot lines are going to be different, so it’s importing the essence of those stories, those characters, into this particular version and retelling of those tales.

What kind of research did you put into Klaw?

Serkis: In terms of the weapon he might, or might not have … he is actually quite a brilliant assembler of weaponry and technology and putting those together. I kind of looked a lot into that, to be very superficial about it.

What kinds of qualities are you able to draw from characters like Caesar and Snoke that you’re able to put into Klaw?

Serkis: I don’t know if Klaw thinks of himself as a leader. He’s just a solo operator, ultimately. He’s a mercenary, literally. He came out of the army and started amassing small-scale deals and working with agencies and building up his own network. In this case, it’s slightly different to a lot of the roles that I played in that he’s the master of his own destiny and is very accepting of that. I don’t think he ever feels like he’s leading a gang or a mercenary army. He picks people up when and where he needs them.

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For even more, be sure to check out these recent reports from our visit to the set of Black Panther:

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Image via Marvel Studios