From director Brett Morgen (Kurt Cobain: Montage of Heck, The Kid Stays in the Picture), the remarkable documentary Jane tells the story of Jane Goodall, a trailblazer who became one of the world’s most admired conversationists, through never-before-seen footage from the National Geographic archives. Her chimpanzee research not only discovered fascinating aspects of their life and behavior, never before known, but it taught us so much about our own similarities and differences with them.

During the film’s Los Angeles press day, filmmaker Brett Morgen got on the phone with Collider to talk about how this documentary came about the challenges of combing through 140 hours of footage, finding a style that suits the subject of each of his films, what it was like to interview Jane Goodall, why he likes to host a test screening for each of his docs, and why Jane Goodall is a real-life superhero. He also talked about how he came to direct the pilot for Marvel’s Runaways for Hulu, why he felt he was an odd choice for the job, and what he brought to it.

Collider: How did this documentary come about, and how challenging was it to put together a film out of all of this film footage?

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Image via National Geographic/Netflix

BRETT MORGEN: In terms of landing the project, it’s that line from Bob Evans, “Life is when opportunity meets preparation.” I felt like I was quite lucky to have landed it, but I was prepared. What I was not prepared for was the way that the material came to us. One of the bigger challenges of the film, when we went to screen it, was that instead of 140 hours of camera reels, we were presented with 140 hours of random shots that were not connected, in any way, shape or form. There was no sound on any of the material and none of the chimps had identifications. That was the challenge, more than anything. Making a film out of discarded film or leftovers is how I built my career, and that stuff is fun. But with this, just writing the film was a true struggle. Our goal was to make an immersive film. What it comes down to is that we wanted to show the world through Jane’s eyes, and so we used everything that film has to offer to achieve that.

Did you have a moment where you thought, “What did I get myself into? I need to get out of this!”?

MORGEN: On day one, we realized that there were no dailies, and I can’t emphasize how important that is. If you’re doing a film like this, with the original camera reels, you’d see anything that was shot within a given hour, and then that becomes scenes. With this, that didn’t exist. You had to work really hard to get somewhere. But despite that issue, when I first looked at this footage, without question, I thought that somehow I’d stumbled upon the greatest 16mm film in existence. Everything that I admire and love about documentary film was inherent in this material. On one hand, it did what documentaries are best suited for, which is documenting this once-in-a-lifetime, once-in-history scientific endeavor. To document these monumental moments is one of the great tools and uses of non-fiction. On the other hand, Hugo [van Lawick] presented it in a way that was so refined and elegant, and his sense of symmetry and composition elevated all of these images. The combination of those two factors was just utterly inspiring.

I really appreciated how personal and intimate of a look into the life of Kurt Cobain that you presented in Montage of Heck, and you do the same with Jane Goodall in Jane.

MORGEN: One of the things that I do with each film is find a style that is suited to the subject matter, so that I’m not imposing upon them. In that context, every aspect of the film serves as a reflection of the subject, so that it becomes a full-bodied experience. Even when she’s not talking, you’re gaining insight into her rhythms, if you will.

When and how did you first meet Jane Goodall, and what was your impression of her?

MORGEN: I met her very late in the process. The first time I talked to Jane was after I’d arrived at a first cut of the film. The last two movies – Montage and Jane – I cut the films prior to doing the interviews. That was a necessity because the interviews for both films were structured to be posed in a manner that reflected the content that the subjects were talking about. In order to do that, you have to really have a very strong guide as to how you’re gonna map out the interview. So, we interviewed Jane towards the end of the process and she was a reluctant narrator. She felt that her story had been told, ad nauseam, and kept telling my producer to just have me use some pre-existing interview. She really wrestled with us to even grant us three hours. It wasn’t until I looked at the footage and realized that we could create a completely immersive portrait of Jane that wasn’t available to audiences or filmmakers, due to technical limitations back in the day. There was something that we had to offer, that was going to be unique and special. So, we convinced Jane to give us a couple of days. To start the interview, I said, “Jane, do you get tired of telling your story. You’ve told it so many times.” She looked at me without blinking and said, “It depends on who’s asking the questions.” Thus began our wonderful relationship. It was interesting, I had to earn it and work for her respect, but I would have had it no other way.

You’ve said that you did one test screening for this film. What made you decide to do that? Isn’t that unusual, with a documentary?

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Image via National Geographic

MORGEN: Going back to The Kid Stays in the Picture, I’m really lucky that I have final cut on all of my films. That said, with each movie, I always do one screening. It’s not for the studio. I don’t get notes from the studio. I’m into getting a plurality of opinion. I don’t like bringing in one or two people at a time. It fucks with your head. I like bringing 40 or 50 people in and seeing what the consensus is. And I think I learned more from this screening than any one I had done in the past. I ended up reshaping the narrative, in a fairly significant way, after the screening. To me, you have to do it, and you have to do it in an anonymous manner. If you bring people in to get their notes, they’re gonna lie. No one ever wants to give you bad news, especially if they know you’ve been working really hard on something. I always encourage people in those screenings to just brutalize me because they’re anonymous. It’s not the time to be nice. It’s time to roll up our sleeves and get dirty.

I love that we have heroes in movies, like Wonder Woman, but we also have heroes in real life, and Jane Goodall is a perfect example of that. What most blows your mind not only about the work that she did, but also what that research taught us about who we are, as humans?

MORGEN: Jane is a real-life superhero. In times of darkness, you need a light, and Jane is that light. For me, personally, being able to return to this world, over the course of the last 18 months, has been a complete breath of fresh air. I’ve learned so much from Jane. For the benefit of the film, it worked out well that I wasn’t that reverential towards her while I was making the film. I’m reverential about her now, especially after promoting the film with her and spending time with her. More than anything, I think Jane is a reminder to make each day count and to try to make the world a little better, in whatever way you can. I am not an earnest person. Those may be fundamental ideals, but for most of my life, they were ignored. Jane has helped me, personally, find my center, in a way that years of therapy weren’t able to achieve. There’s a serenity and a lack of pretense around her that is so rare in our culture. I, personally, feel that I’ve become a better person from the act of making this film. It was really cathartic. Montage really took a toll, emotionally. Particularly promoting that film, it was really draining to talk about Kurt [Cobain] for six months straight. It was really helpful to have this material to jump into.

You’ve established yourself as the documentary guy, so how did you end up directing the first episode of Marvel’s Runaways? Was that something that you pursued, or did they come to you?

MORGEN: That was one of the weirdest calls I’ve ever gotten. I directed a pilot for Hulu last year, called When the Streetlights Go On, that we did with Anonymous Content and Paramount. We ended up taking it to Sundance, in January of this year. It was a great pilot. Everyone at Hulu loved the show. It’s just that the economics of it didn’t really work out. So, flash forward a few months, and they were working on this pilot for Marvel and the folks at Hulu recommended me to Jeph Loeb over at Marvel. His immediate reaction was, “The documentary guy?!” And they were like, “Have you seen his pilot? It’s really good!” Loeb looked at the pilot, and then called me that day and offered me the job. For me, it was such a weird call. I didn’t even know there was a comic book called Runaways. I’m not a Marvel guy. When he hired me, Jeph said, “I’m gonna tell you the three words every director dreams of hearing. Welcome to Marvel.” I remember thinking, “Well, that’s odd. I’ve never had that dream.” It was not a part of my bucket list, but it was an interesting challenge.

The thing about the pilot director is that you get to establish the overall look, aesthetic and feel of the season and the series. What did you want to bring to Runaways?

MORGEN: I knew, by the fact they were calling me, what they were looking for. It wasn’t a stretch for me to figure out that they wanted me to bring a level of authenticity to the show, and to bring a certain sense of grit and cinematic gravitas. They really allowed me to have free reign on the pilot, as far as establishing the look and feel of the show. Specifically with that show, I felt that there were these two worlds colliding – the kids’ world, and that of the parents. I wanted the kids’ world to have that edge and grit and get much deeper into the hand-held aesthetic than the parents’ world, which would allow them to have something to toy with, stylistically and visually, as the show moves forward.

Are you hoping to direct any more episodes of that series, or direct any other non-documentary stuff?

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Image via National Geographic

MORGEN: I have no interest in directing episodic television. I would consider doing pilots. To be honest, if it happens, that’s great. I hope Runaways is a huge hit. I wasn’t available to do any more episodes this season, but I love (showrunners) Josh [Schwartz] and Stephanie [Savage] and the cast. I would definitely do more episodes of Runaways. The last three years have really re-ignited my passion and love for non-fiction. I’ve been at this for 20 years, and there was a period of time, between 2007 and Montage, where we were trying to get funding and it was taking forever, and I got lost doing commercials and lost my footage. Returning to non-fiction with Montage and Jane, which were so creatively satisfying, and having the experience of doing scripted during that period, has led me to feel like all I really want to do is make non-fiction films. I just find the challenge of doing documentaries so satisfying. You don’t have to deal with 100 people. It’s very zen, in that it’s you and the material, and you’re wrestling with it. When you get these kinds of subjects and you’re working with the material that amazing craftspeople have produced, I don’t know any better high.

Do you know your next documentary subject yet?

MORGEN: We’re going to start the next film in about six weeks and there will be a big announcement. It’s a project that we’ve been trying to secure the rights for, for eons, and I’m literally foaming at the mouth to talk about it, but I can’t yet.

Jane opens in theaters on October 20th.

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Image via National Geographic
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Image via National Geographic
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Image via National Geographic