Now in its second season, the YouTube Originals series Cobra Kai (if you haven’t taken the time to watch it yet, I highly recommend giving it a shot), takes place 30 years after the events of the 1984 All Valley Karate Tournament and gives viewers a new perspective on the lives of both Johnny Lawrence (William Zabka) and Daniel LaRusso (Ralph Macchio). While LaRusso has a loving family and successful string of car dealerships throughout the San Fernando Valley, his high school adversary Lawrence’s life has taken a turn that’s set him on a path of seeking redemption by reopening the infamous Cobra Kai dojo and overcoming his own demons.

During this 1-on-1 phone interview with Collider, actor Ralph Macchio talked about what it was about Cobra Kai that got him to return to the world of The Karate Kid, the terrible pitches he’d heard in the years between, when he realized that the show was connecting with viewers, playing both protagonist and antagonist in the same project, his favorite Daniel LaRusso and Johnny Lawrence moments, what he appreciates about co-star William Zabka, sharing scenes with Martin Kove as John Kreese, playing the sensei to a new generation of karate kids, and his hope that they’ll be back for Season 3. He also talked about what he’s enjoyed about his experience on the HBO series The Deuce.

cobra-kai-ralph-macchio-01
Image via YouTube

Collider: This show is that rare unicorn that’s brought something back that so many people love and are nostalgic about, but did so in a way that feels new and current. When did you realize that it was actually working that way, and when did you realize that it was also being received that way, by the people who were watching it?

RALPH MACCHIO: That’s a very good question. There are a few answers to that. First, the idea was pitched to me and, as you can imagine, over the 30-something years, I’ve had many incarnations of thoughts and ideas pitched that were not appealing. It’s also very precious to me, too, so going back to the well, you don’t know if there’s gonna be water at the bottom, so sometimes it’s smarter to leave the legacy alone. In this case, Jon [Hurwitz], Josh [Heald] and Hayden [Schlossberg], our three creators, are the biggest super fans you’ll ever meet. They knew every frame and every innuendo of all those films. It was their childhood. They were massive Karate Kid fans, and it felt like they wanted to make the show that fans wanted. With their writing experience, with the Harold & Kumar films and Hot Tub Time Machine, they certainly had a handle on how to write for a now and young generation. Also, they always respected and wanted to respect and pay homage to the legacy of the films, and certainly the Miyagi-isms and the strength of that character, going forward. It was of the utmost importance to me that it was woven into the story. All of those elements made me feel like this had a shot. Whether it would come together, you just never know.

Everyone asks the same question, “What’s the tone? It’s a half-hour and you’re saying this is a comedy, but it’s not. This is a drama, but it’s got humor.” I asked that question, and so did every network that we pitched. That was always the question. We just had to trust that they had the vision, and they did. We would always collaborate on all of those elements. As far as seeing it for the first time and saying, “Wow, it has all of the feels. I have the goosebumps, but I’m laughing out loud. And we’re poking fun at ourselves and the time, and yet it’s relevant with the issues, like bullying and other elements that are a part of the fabric of what the franchise and the universe is. It just all came together. They’ve become the how-to guys, on how to do it the right way. We all collaborate on it, but you need someone to drive the ship, and I’ve gotta hand it to those guys. It’s good that there are three of them because they keep each other in check. There are those times that I’ve been in disagreement, but I give them the tie breaker because I’m on the inside trying to oversee it, as opposed to having the bird’s eye view of the whole piece, and they really have a very strong vision.

And then, once it hit and everyone came onto it, the fans were just in love with what it did and how it did not undercut their childhood movie and their affinity for the film, and yet felt fresh and new. The press was the biggest surprise, how they unanimously were so positive. They were like, “Stop and take a look at this. Don’t avoid this. This is it!” It was really nice to see that. When the concept came out, maybe people were tired of hearing of every ‘80s quick cash grab, nostalgia-take, reboot idea. And then, it landed at YouTube, who was still defining what they were, in the original content area, as opposed to Netflix and Amazon and Hulu, who already had a grasp on that. I think low expectations did not hurt us. I think we still would have had the same response, but it certainly did not hurt that people were saying, “Yeah, sure, all right, this is gonna be painful, but I’m gonna watch it anyway,” and then we surprised everyone. So now, the stakes are high because we’ve done it, and we have to do it again, and hopefully, again and again and again.

cobra-kai-ralph-macchio-03
Image via YouTube

In all of those years where you were turning down pitches, was there a worst or craziest or most unbelievable pitch?

MACCHIO: Yes. My worst was when someone – and I forget the name of the guy – pitched me and John Avildsen, who was the director of the original Karate Kid. It was like a half-joke, but he was also waiting to see if we liked it. Somewhere there was a studio person that said, “What if we join franchises and we find out that Rocky Balboa is somehow related to Daniel LaRusso?” And this was like before the MMA mixed martial arts stuff. It’s interesting, it’s almost like this guy was ahead of the curve, but with the most stupid idea in the world. At least in my memory, it never really got any definition. It was just conceptual. He was trying to sell us a poster.

I’ve heard tons of things like, “Hey, how about you’re a parent and your kid has a problem, and you become the Miyagi to your kid?,” with no backbone or substance. What was so smart about Cobra Kai was entering the world through the eyes of Johnny Lawrence, the “villain,” to see whatever happened to this guy and what his perspective of those events is. And then, you bring LaRusso into that and you show that they’re both characters with flaws and grey areas. That’s probably the biggest difference between Cobra Kai and the original Karate Kid. The film was very black and white, good over evil, whereas this show blurs some of those lines, but never loses sight of the core of what The Karate Kid film was. And certainly on the LaRusso side, you get to see his affinity and respect for what Mr. Miyagi was for him, and how he now has to fill that void.

We always hear that every character is the hero of his own story and that no one sees themselves as the villain, and we really get to see that with the show with each of these characters being the hero of their own story. What have you most enjoyed about getting to see both sides of these characters, and exploring what makes them both protagonists and antagonists to each other?

MACCHIO: Right there in your question is a good part of the answer. Having the opportunity to be the protagonist and antagonist within the same piece is rare. There’s always a little push-back and give-and-take with the writers when it comes to, “Okay, so you want me to do this now, so that he looks good?” We’re always defending our characters, but we know that the overall picture has to be in all of the colors of the story, painting the picture. At the on-set, it was not easy to do because, when they made LaRusso this car dealer who was on billboards and in commercials, I was like, “That sounds like something you came up with to make things worse for Johnny Lawrence, as opposed to what LaRusso would have done.” So, it was about us negotiating and finding the way that he would be an auto dealer, but not a cheeseball auto dealer. He’s someone who’s trying to do good, and he never loses the thread of LaRusso’s heart and soul, and the person that he is. He’s a likable guy that’s a bit of a knee-jerk person who gets himself in trouble when he’s feisty and acts now, before thinking about it, which is the opposite of me. I’m more of the analytic type. If I got beat up in high school once, I wouldn’t go back, but my movie also would not be as good. It’s just fun exploring all of those areas, and then finding where those flaws are, as adults and at your mid-life point, which these characters are. We’re all wired, a certain way. Even at my age now, there are things that I do that are my default, but that don’t always show my best side. You’re constantly working at being a better person, but when someone pushes your buttons, like Johnny Lawrence does with LaRusso, and vice versa, they just don’t see clear enough to know that they’re not that far apart, just one had a good sensei and one had a diabolical sensei. It makes for good entertainment and complexity in the characters, so that’s fun.

cobra-kai-ralph-macchio-mary-houser-tanner-buchanan
Image via YouTube

You guys also get to directly interact a lot more in Season 2 and you have some really fun moments together, including a dance scene and a fight scene. What was your favorite scene to shoot together, in this second season?

 MACCHIO: That’s a good question. I don’t want to spoil it, but there’s an intense confrontation at the end of Episode 5, after they vandalize the dojo, and that scene was fun to shoot. There was a lot of emotion there. As many scenes as we do in the show, when we get together, it’s like when you’re playing the best at tennis, you’re going to play your best game. There’s an intensity in that scene, and there’s a lot of emotion in that scene, because of Mr. Miyagi, and the pain and responsibility of what was vandalized and what that meant to him. It’s knee-jerk LaRusso because he doesn’t fully know what happened, but it had a lot of weight to it. On the flip side of that, the scene in Episode 209 at the restaurant was like Episode 109 of last season, when we were at the bar. That was fun because we each come from the side of antagonism, but there’s also an essence of how these guys could get along, if they could just see as clearly as the audience can.

What do you appreciate about William Zabka, as an actor, that maybe you didn’t realize, back when you made the film together?

MACCHIO: That’s the first time I’ve heard that question, and it’s a great one. I think Billy has impressed me in this turn. He’s always wanted to go back to this character, way more than I did. Not that I wouldn’t want to play Daniel LaRusso again, but I didn’t want to, until I felt that the script or vision was right. But he always had a belief that there was more to be played and that there were more levels to dive into. I didn’t disagree with that, but I just didn’t know how to get it done. When someone says, “I wanna get up to bat again,” very often, they’re so over anxious that they strike out very quickly. That is not the case with Billy. He’s delivered, on all cylinders, and so has Martin Kove, this season. These guys have done a really great job of stepping into these shoes and adding other layers and dimensions to themselves, as actors and as these characters. I’m trying to keep up, myself.

When you see Martin Kove this season, it reminds you of just how much of a despicable villain John Kreese is. How was the experience of working with him again, playing that character?

MACCHIO: It’s funny ‘cause, in the film, we barely had any scenes. I don’t remember even speaking to him. I see him in the second episode, and then, in Episode 7, he’s in Miyagi’s backyard, and he puts the cigar out in the bonsai tree and says, “Regards.” He’s just so despicable. To LaRusso, he’s bigger than life. That character was the human Darth Vader of the ‘80s to my Skywalker. There’s a reason these things work. Martin has been waiting, chewing on his cigar and the scenery, to get a shot at this, and he’s enjoying it.

Does it ever feel surreal to be the adult and to play the father, the teacher, and the mentor to all of these kids who are working alongside you? Do you ever get jealous of all the fight scenes and the stunts that they get to do?

cobra-kai-william-zabka-ralph-macchio-02
Image via YouTube

MACCHIO: I do not get jealous of all the fight scenes, but I do get jealous that they’re all 18 and 21 years old. When I walked into the Miyagi house set, that first day, to shoot the scenes with Tanner [Buchanan] as Robby, for the painting of the fence, the waxing the car, sanding the deck, and all of that stuff, we rehearsed the scenes, and then I went to my trailer to get into wardrobe to shoot it while they were setting up the camera, and this wave of emotion just came over me. It was two-fold, if not three-fold. That was where the magic happened in The Karate Kid, when we shot that in 1983, in that backyard. Without those scenes, and without Mr. Miyagi and what that character meant to the film and pop culture and everything else, we wouldn’t be making this show. There’s no way. Pat [Morita] is no longer with us, and John Avildsen, who directed the film, is no longer with us, and Jerry Weintraub, who was the producer of the film, is no longer with us. I just had this real emotional moment, where I missed that and just realized how long ago it was. And then, on top of that, I realized that I’m not in Kansas anymore, and I’m in my 50s. It was just this human moment that I had, and it was really nostalgic, kind of bittersweet, and a little melancholy for a moment. And then, I went back in and it was time to get to work, and I just made sure I brought everything that I could to it, to pay respect to what got us here.

By the end of Season 2, things get very real, very quickly, and there are certainly a lot of questions left. Have you already had conversations about how that could play out in Season 3? Have you had conversations about things beyond Season 3?

MACCHIO: We’ve had all of those conversations. There’s been a lot that’s been discussed about Season 3. You always want to end these serialized shows at a place that the fans will revolt, if you don’t come back, and I believe that we’ve achieved that with Season 2, but there are those discussions. The guys will get in the writers’ room when it’s time, and they’ll really map it out. I’ve pitched certain things about the places that I’d like to see LaRusso go, and possible storylines and higher stakes, and I’m sure Billy has, as well. They chose to go a certain way with the ending of this season. I feel that Season 2 gives the fans all of the comfort food that they love, but also takes them to a place they’d never expect.

You’ve also been working on The Deuce, which is a great show with really smart storytelling and a really interesting group of diverse characters. What’s it like to be a part of a David Simon TV series and get to work with material, on that level?

MACCHIO: I love it. I don’t have a lot to do in the show, but they’ve kept this character around. On a show like that, you never know when you’re gonna get two to the back of the head, or fall off the roof of a building. Playing a crooked cop, in the early to late ‘70s, in the first two seasons, is so much fun. You have to really be on your toes, especially when you’re jumping on a moving train and just coming in to do a scene here or a scene there, in a gigantic ensemble. It’s so cool to be on that. There are scenes where Maggie Gyllenhaal or [James] Franco, or some of the others become the extras in scenes that are about other people. It’s not just a star-driven piece, although Maggie is just beyond. She’s giving a fierce, breathtaking performance, all the way through. It’s very cool. You get that great dialogue. Sometimes it’s last minute, but you get it. And I remember those days. I remember 1971/72 in New York, when I was 10 years old and my parents walked me across 42nd Street quickly. Now, we’re in 1985 for Season 3, and it’s the mid ‘80s, when AIDS came in. It’s documentary style filmmaking that is behavioral and less plot-driven, which is nice. It’s really nice to be a part of that fabric. I appreciate you asking that, and I’m excited for Season 3.

Cobra Kai Season 2 is available to stream at YouTube Premium.

cobra-kai-poster-01