From writer/director Aaron Harvey, the revenge thriller Into the Ashes follows Nick Brenner (Luke Grimes), an ex-criminal who’s set his life on a very different path, with an honest job and a loving wife. But when his old crew comes looking for the money that he stole and send Nick a very clear message that all is not forgiven, Nick sets out to get payback for what they’ve done.

During this 1-on-1 phone interview with Collider, actor Frank Grillo (who plays ex-con Sloan) talked about what drew him to Into the Ashes, the fun of playing a guy like this, getting into his character’s head, and his own favorite revenge movie. He also talked about the recently released action thriller Point Blank (available to stream at Netflix), which he did with his producing partner Joe Carnahan and opposite co-star Anthony Mackie, re-teaming with The Purge filmmaker James DeMonaco for Once Upon a Time in Staten Island, and returning to the Marvel Universe for Avengers: Endgame.

into-the-ashes-poster

Collider:  How did this come your way, and what was it that really grabbed your attention? This is an interesting character, but he’s also a man of not that many words, so was that part of the appeal?

FRANK GRILLO:  You know, I read the script and it really reminded me of No Country for Old Men. And then, when I talked to the director (Aaron Harvey), he actually brought up No Country for Old Men, and we talked about casting. My friend, James Badge Dale, is in the movie, and I had known Luke Grimes a little bit. The elements were there. The script is really sparse, but it’s unapologetic, which I think is cool because you’re not trying to appease any group of people. When we went to make it, it was exactly how we talked about bringing together, so it was a good experience.

Do you find it a lot of fun to play a character like this, where we don’t necessarily have to learn the reasons for what he’s doing or what his backstory is?

GRILLO:  Yeah, and good for you for saying that. I read a lot of critics’ opinions about films, and a lot of them always want to know why everything happened, or what the background is, and I like not knowing. What does it matter? It doesn’t matter. All that matters is what’s happening, in the moment. You follow the now. We’re not reading a book. It’s not a novel, it’s a motion picture. I can fill in the blanks or not, and just follow the story and narrative. That’s the information that you need. That’s a great point. I love sparse scripts. I love when things show you, in a way that’s efficient. TV is a writer’s medium. You have to constantly tell the audience what happened last week, right now, and what may happen next week. But the beauty of being able to do film is that you don’t have to abide by any of that.

into-the-ashes-frank-grillo-02
Image via RLJE Films

With a guy like this, I don’t think there’s any explanation of who that would make you feel better about his actions.

GRILLO:  No. Listen, he’s out for one thing. It’s very simple. It’s kind of Shakespearean and a little biblical. It’s about revenge, and only about revenge. There are a couple of obstacles that are in my way, but I’m gonna get this guy, or he’s going to get me. It’s simple.

How did you view him? Were there ways that you wanted to get inside of his head, or things that you wanted to do, to bring him to life?

GRILLO:  No, I’m crazy in my everyday life, and I want to kill people, all the time, so having that in my head, I was like, “Okay, I’m just gonna apply that to the job.” No, I joke when I say it’s a piece of me. But I am very attracted to stories of revenge, and what drives people to the point where it’s almost insane what they’ll do, just for revenge. So, I used specific stories that I’ve known for my whole life, as a template.

He’s certainly somebody who seems a bit cold, in the sense that it seems like he feels that it’s perfectly okay that he killed someone to get his point across.

GRILLO:  Yeah, he’s like, “You almost killed me. I went to jail for several years. My whole family has been scattered because of it. And I’m gonna kill [this person], just to let you know that you fucked up.” Killing her doesn’t even matter because it’s not really about her. He’s like, “You lied. This whole thing is a farce. Your marriage was a scam. Now, we’re just two guys, so let’s talk about what happened.” It’s funny and scary, at the same time.

It’s a film that fall in the revenge genre, but it’s also a screwed-up family drama

GRILLO:  Yeah, it’s a dysfunctional family who kills people.

It almost makes you wonder what their Thanksgiving dinners must have been like.

GRILLO:  You know what, let me tell you, if I could kill some of my relatives, I would love that.

I think everyone has had that dream, over a bad Thanksgiving family dinner, at some point.

GRILLO:  I know. And then, you go do a movie called The Purge, and you get to do all that stuff.

Do you have any favorite revenge movies?

GRILLO:  My buddy Liam Neeson’s movie Taken. That’s my favorite revenge movie. The thing about revenge is that you have to be driven by something so severe and so real that there’s no line between the bad guy and the good guy anymore. Because the guy you’re taking the revenge out on did something very bad, at some point, it’s all very grey, who’s bad and who’s good. In this movie, Luke Grimes isn’t a good guy. He did a terrible thing, and he’s narcissistic. He’s just looking out for himself, so he deserves to die.

into-the-ashes-frank-grillo-david-cade-scott-peat
Image via RLJE Films

You also recently had Point Blank come out through Netflix. What did you enjoy about working with Anthony Mackie on that? What do you like about having him to play off of?

GRILLO:  My partner, Joe Carnahan, and I developed the movie with a company called Gaumont who owned the original property, and then we rewrote the script. This was our movie. Our company (WarParty) produced it, and there was only Anthony Mackie to play this role. He’s my buddy, and we’d been looking for a fun thing to do. This is the next stage of my life, and it’s amazing. My best friend and I own a company, where we get to make movies with people that we love and respect, and go and do really great work. If there’s something better than that, I’ve never experienced it, as an actor and now as a producer. There’s no greater feeling. Me and Mackie are buddies, and we’ll do more movies together. Joe and I are in pre-production with The Raid, a remake of the original movie, which we showed Mackie, so Mackie will probably be in there somewhere.

What was it then like to then add Joe Lynch, as another piece to that puzzle, and to have him come in and direct the film?

GRILLO:  I didn’t know Joe Lynch until Carnahan said, “Here’s a guy who makes these little interesting films that not a lot of people see.” But Joe Carnahan said, “This guy’s got something,” and when Carnahan says that about another director, you listen. So, we talked to Joe and he had a vision, so we brought him on and he did a great job. He was very open. Joe and I have a way that we want things to be done, and Joe was very malleable. He saw the opportunity, and we all worked great together. This is the biggest thing that Joe has ever done. He’s a director who was around Joe Carnahan, who’s an A-list director, so I think it was a bit stressful because he had to deliver for me and Joe. It was not without its bumps, but in the end, it was a collective creation, and I think we knocked it out of the park, for what it is.

You also re-teamed with The Purge filmmaker James DeMonaco for Once Upon a Time in Staten Island. What attracted you to that project, and what do you like about working with him, as a filmmaker?

GRILLO:  To me, James DeMonaco is one of the most underrated talents in Hollywood, and he sequesters himself in Staten Island, New York. This is a movie that is very different than The Purge. It’s a family drama and a period piece that’s set in 1982. It’s about the night Rocky III comes out, and it’s about this Italian family, who is struggling with one son who is gay and cross-dressing, and in that time in Staten Island, that’s a no-no, and a younger son who’s obsessed with Rocky, gets himself into trouble, and he’s on the run for the whole night. They’re dealing with these two crises, at the same time. Myself and Naomi [Watts] play the parents, and it’s a family drama. It’s serious and fun, but it’s very different than anything DeMonaco has ever done. I think it’ll show the world, or the film-going world, at least, that this is a guy who’s multi-talented, and not defined by The Purge, which is a commercial success, and the reason why you do a few of them is because he keeps making money. But this guy is going to totally surprise everybody.

After having briefly been involved in the Marvel Universe, how cool was it to find out that you’d actually get to return and be in Avengers: Endgame?

GRILLO:  It was great. I was reluctant because I had to go to Atlanta, and I was tired. My oldest son said to me, “Dad, you’re gonna be in the last Avengers movie. I don’t care if it’s for 10 seconds, you’re going.” So, I literally credit my son Remy with that. I had talked to Joe Russo and was like, “I’m not coming. I’m not doing it. You have to get somebody else. I’m not coming.” And my son Remy said, “You’re going.” And you know what? I’m glad I listened to him because I’m a part, although it’s a very small part, of history. The movie broke all kinds of records. And by the way, I was being an idiot. I owe a lot to that world and the Marvel universe, who invited me into that world. I did Captain America: Winter Soldier and it changed my career, in a global sense, so I should go and sweep the floors of the studio. I wasn’t thinking clearly, but I’m better now. That elevator scene will go down in history, in the Marvel world, so it’s great. It’s humbling.

Into the Ashes is in theaters, on-demand and digital on July 19th.