David Goyer Says MAN OF STEEL Sequel Could Be Titled SUPERMAN VS. BATMAN or BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN

by     Posted 1 year, 40 days ago

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Pre-production is underway on the sequel to Man of Steel, which was announced at Comic-Con on Saturday.  The announcement referenced a classic line from Frank Miller’s comic book, The Dark Knight Returns: “I want you to remember my hand at your throat. I want you to remember the one man who beat you.”  The quote is from a moment where Batman has defeated Superman, and then we saw the logo for the new movie.  Away from Hall H and buried in all the hoopla was writer David S. Goyer at the Superman 75th Anniversary Panel.  He told the audience:

“we’re actually not sure whether the title is Superman vs. Batman or Batman vs. Superman but yes, it’s–that rematch, that combination, the two guys onscreen and that’s happening.”

The title makes more sense than World’s Finest since people that don’t know comics won’t understand the title.  It’s better to put “Superman” and “Batman” in there, and spare everyone the confusion.

Comicbook.com also noted that Warner Bros. owns the domains “SupermanVsBatman.com” and “BatmanVsSuperman.com”, so it looks like we’re stuck with the “versus” part.  Also, as Batman-News.com pointed out to me, Warners has had these domains since 2001.    At this point, it’s probably best for Justice League’s title to be “Superman & Batman & Wonder Woman & Flash & Green Lantern” (or whatever superheroes go into that movie).  The untitled Superman/Batman movie is due out in 2015.

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  • Sweet Pea

    Matt Goldberg is not funny at all, and he tries so hard too. But yeah, agree this title is pretty sh*t and uninventive. Looking forward to seeing what they do with the movie, not convinced it’s going to work though, especially after being really underwhelmed by MoS.

  • Sweet Pea

    Matt Goldberg is not funny at all, and he tries so hard too. But yeah, agree this title is pretty sh*t and uninventive. Looking forward to seeing what they do with the movie, not convinced it’s going to work though, especially after being really underwhelmed by MoS.

  • Doug_101

    WTF is wrong with “World’s Finest?”
    Also, love Matt’s new title for Justice League. The fact that they think this is a good title is making me worried about something that should be a no-brainer home run.

  • Kev

    How about World’s Finest: Batman vs. Superman? There.

    • nom79

      I’d even settle for that but if its a Superman sequel, it should have Superman first then Batman since he’s being introduced newly into the film……just saying.

    • e5vywv4yv

      How about: “Superman & Batman: World’s Finest”

  • nom79

    Unless this movie is completely about Superman going toe to toe With Batman for 2 hours (give or take), this is a horrible idea. Goyer said “Rematch”? When have they ever been on screen together? So not only can’t he write but he can’t talk apparently either. Shitty way to grab the audience.

    “The title makes more sense than World’s Finest since people that don’t know comics won’t understand the title.”

    Ummmmm…….there are these things called “logos” and “symbols”. A person who doesn’t know what a comic book is will put 2 and 2 together just by seeing a Batman image and Superman image together.

    Smells to me like DC still doesn’t know what the fuck they are doing! Get your act together guys……Marvel, Sony and FUX (which I don’t like) are handling business at the moment. You should too.

    • Lance

      No, Goyer’s right about people not getting the title. If you’re just looking at the title on a marquee or scanning a list of movie showtimes, non-comics fans aren’t going to have any idea what the movie’s about if you just call it “World’s Finest.”

      It’d be an even worse decision than Disney re-naming “John Carter of Mars” just “John Carter.”

      Batman Versus Superman isn’t a great title (reminds me of Alien Versus Predator) but at least it sells what the movie’s about.

      • nom79

        I understand your point Lance but we live in a digital era. We have all sorts of ways to get information about whats new, whats trending, etc. Also, who in their right mind goes to the theatres and decides what movie they are going to watch right then and there? The typical movie-goers (1) does their research on the movie and (2) get feedback to see wether or not the movie is good or bad.

        It just sounds like a bad marketing tactic and a great way to sell merchandise. I’d go with what THIS GUY said and title it “Man of Steel: World’s Finest”

        Superman vs. Batman does not in anyway sound like a sequel to Man of Steel. It sounds like its own standalone film.

      • Lance

        I get what you’re saying, and I’d personally have no problem being aware of an upcoming Batman Versus Superman movie (because I’d be reading about it months in advance) but there are still people out there who aren’t as dialed in to what’s cool and trending as the folks who visit Collider.

        If you didn’t know much about DC comics, you’d hear “World’s Finest” and think it was a movie about little old ladies running a bakery in Great Britain or something. It’s a bad way to build public awareness. You’d have to spend additional millions in marketing just to overcome misperceptions of what the movie was about.

        It’s too bad the movie can’t just be marketed to the fans. But then we hardly need any marketing for this one.

      • Dev1359

        It should be World’s Finest, Batman vs. Superman is just a really bland and unimaginative title. The whole “people won’t see it because they won’t know wtf World’s Finest is” argument is stupid, I know a lot of people who didn’t know Batman was “The Dark Knight” or Superman was “The Man of Steel” and yet lined up to see those movies because the marketing made it fairly obvious that they were movies about Batman and Superman.

        When it comes down to it, all this movie really needs is the Batman/Superman logo slapped across posters, trailers and TV commercials and millions of people will line up to see it regardless of what the title is.

      • Lance

        It might seem “stupid,” but believe it or not effective marketing often hinges on little things like this. And titles like “Dark Knight” or “Man of Steel” at least hint what the movie’s about, and stick in your head. “World’s Finest” could be anything.

        There’s no way the fans are winning this one, because it really is marketing 101. Let’s just hope for a great film that’s better than its title.

      • Lance

        It might seem “stupid,” but believe it or not effective marketing often hinges on little things like this. And titles like “Dark Knight” or “Man of Steel” at least hint what the movie’s about, and stick in your head. “World’s Finest” could be anything.

        There’s no way the fans are winning this one, because it really is marketing 101. Let’s just hope for a great film that’s better than its title.

      • Dev1359

        It should be World’s Finest, Batman vs. Superman is just a really bland and unimaginative title. The whole “people won’t see it because they won’t know wtf World’s Finest is” argument is stupid, I know a lot of people who didn’t know Batman was “The Dark Knight” or Superman was “The Man of Steel” and yet lined up to see those movies because the marketing made it fairly obvious that they were movies about Batman and Superman.

        When it comes down to it, all this movie really needs is the Batman/Superman logo slapped across posters, trailers and TV commercials and millions of people will line up to see it regardless of what the title is.

      • nom79

        I understand your point Lance but we live in a digital era. We have all sorts of ways to get information about whats new, whats trending, etc. Also, who in their right mind goes to the theatres and decides what movie they are going to watch right then and there? The typical movie-goers (1) does their research on the movie and (2) get feedback to see wether or not the movie is good or bad.

        It just sounds like a bad marketing tactic and a great way to sell merchandise. I’d go with what THIS GUY said and title it “Man of Steel: World’s Finest”

        Superman vs. Batman does not in anyway sound like a sequel to Man of Steel. It sounds like its own standalone film.

  • ThisGuy

    “Man of Steel: World’s Finest” …. Boom.

    • tonymatthews

      Man of Tomorrow*

      Would be even better.

      • Faptain America

        Tomorrow’s Finest Man: Steel of the World Knight.
        I like this game.

    • DoctorPotterHolmes007

      “Worlds Finest”

  • monarch

    Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? pretty much covers it.

  • monarch

    Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow? pretty much covers it.

  • cloud720

    I was half way through both Dark Knight and Man of Steel before I realized they were about Batman and Superman, so of course I wouldn’t get World’s Finest.

  • cloud720

    I was half way through both Dark Knight and Man of Steel before I realized they were about Batman and Superman, so of course I wouldn’t get World’s Finest.

  • sense11

    Wow you can tell Matt hates writing about this stuff, why does Collider make him do it.

  • sense11

    Wow you can tell Matt hates writing about this stuff, why does Collider make him do it.

  • Kryptonian Knight

    I’m not going to over analyze anything yet and be a hysterical bitch b/c names change all the time and we are two years away but they better not. I REPEAT. They better not use that Batman logo! This Batman better go Arkham.
    http://cdn2-www.craveonline.com/assets/uploads/gallery/batman-arkham-origins-screens-2/1367172339-batman-arkham-origins-2.jpg

    • Lex Walker

      Complete agreement: not a fan of the chubby bat logo of Dark Knight Returns. It just looks bad compared to almost every other take on the design.

    • Lex Walker

      Complete agreement: not a fan of the chubby bat logo of Dark Knight Returns. It just looks bad compared to almost every other take on the design.

  • Jnl

    How original….

  • http://www.patuniverse.com/ PATuniverse.com

    So the Man of Steel sequel could possibly be called “Batman vs. Superman” or “Superman vs. Batman.” IDK about this. I want this movie to happen just as much as the next nerd, but it’s too soon in my opinion. DC needs to do like Marvel and establish its other characters first. Can Wonder Woman and Aquaman get their own movies already? A 2015 release date? The Dark Knight Rises only came out in 2012. It’s too soon for a Batman reboot, the public isn’t ready for a new Batman yet.

    • Strong Enough

      too soon? these are fictional characters. you shouldn’t care about it that much to care if it’s “too soon”

  • http://www.patuniverse.com/ PATuniverse.com

    So the Man of Steel sequel could possibly be called “Batman vs. Superman” or “Superman vs. Batman.” IDK about this. I want this movie to happen just as much as the next nerd, but it’s too soon in my opinion. DC needs to do like Marvel and establish its other characters first. Can Wonder Woman and Aquaman get their own movies already? A 2015 release date? The Dark Knight Rises only came out in 2012. It’s too soon for a Batman reboot, the public isn’t ready for a new Batman yet.

  • James

    arg i’m not thrilled about this to be honest, I’m sure it will be epic and i will go see it, but it seems like a typical studio move. They don’t think Superman can carry the Movieverse so they’re shoving Batman in our face for the 100th time. I don’t see why they can’t take the time to flesh out Superman more with a solo sequel then do worlds finest/JLA. I could be in the minority here but this makes me a little bummed, and that god awful title doesn’t help things.

  • James

    arg i’m not thrilled about this to be honest, I’m sure it will be epic and i will go see it, but it seems like a typical studio move. They don’t think Superman can carry the Movieverse so they’re shoving Batman in our face for the 100th time. I don’t see why they can’t take the time to flesh out Superman more with a solo sequel then do worlds finest/JLA. I could be in the minority here but this makes me a little bummed, and that god awful title doesn’t help things.

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  • Shawn

    Goyer is just making a joke to get audience laughs……….he better be. I’m worried now.

  • Shawn

    Goyer is just making a joke to get audience laughs……….he better be. I’m worried now.

  • Jared

    Why not just call it Superman: Knightfall?

  • Jared

    Why not just call it Superman: Knightfall?

  • Bob

    That is dumb. Maybe the can have a quick little fight when they get in an argument but it should be a team up movie. Not hero vs hero. Thats dumb. It should be Worlds Finest. If you have a Superman/Batman logo they will know what it is. They will def no what it is also when they see Bats and Sups in the trailer. People will understand, theyll be like ohhh worlds finest meaning our worlds greatest heroes etc.

  • http://zoelogie.tumblr.com/ Baby Jean

    Batman facing Superman… It really can’t work in this newly established DC universe (and by that I mean Batman would be ground into cat food by Kal EL, come on!), unless the writers introduce some sort of device that can conceivably balance the fight. I remember that during the final fight between Superman and Zod, Zod shed his armor on a semi constructed Luthor building, so maybe Batman could retrieve the armor and incorporate it into his own suit. But even then, don’t you guys think they would have to introduce Kryptonite anyway ? And how many times would these guys have to fight each other ? Because when Harry Lennix read that quote, it meant that Batman had previously beaten Superman, and that they were about to face off again!
    The quote came from The Dark Knight Returns, which is set in an alternate universe, and is a COMIC. Not all fights in comics translate well to the movie world, especially when you’re dealing with human beings vs gods. I just don’t see how they’re going to pull this one off, if they really are going to make them fight each other… What do you think ?
    By the way, for the title of the movie, I think they shouldn’t mention “superman” and “batman”. They should just go with a poster of the two striking a pose, and write “World’s Finest” right under.

  • ThisGuy01

    Strange title choice… since movies titled MAN OF STEEL & THE DARK KNIGHT did very well at the box office even though neither had Superman or Batman in the title. All you need to inform people that Batman & Superman fight each other is a two-minute trailer or 30 commercial where you see Batman vs. Superman & then the title “World’s Finest”. We all know this movie is going to start marketing next summer & will swamp up with marketing for a full year before release so does anyone think there will be one habitual filmgoer (or hell, anyone who watches movies at all) who won’t know what “World’s Finest” is about.

    • Lance

      Why didn’t people know what John Carter was about? Why didn’t people listen to the fans who said it was good?

      Folks, in this case the marketers aren’t complete idiots. That’s not always true, but this time they actually know what they’re talking about.

      Warner Brothers needs the title to interest people who won’t sit through a two minute trailer.

      • ThisGuy01

        There’s a HUGE difference between Edgar Rice Burrough’s John Carter of Mars – a series of science fiction novels from almost 100 years ago that aside from influencing later works have had zero name presence in pop culture for the past several decades – & the goddamned Batman & the fucking Superman.

  • Jamesy

    Man Of Steel: Beyond The Knight

  • feloniousmax

    I expect it will be called either World’s Finest or Superman: The Dark Knight Returns, making it a Superman film, but naming Batman as well.
    Hear me out, I’ve said this elsewhere but will reiterate here

    With the quote that was read, with the bat logo being the same as that of Miller’s seminal Bat story, with Goyer’s attachment and Nolan’s demonstrated propensity for having cast making false claims as to the
    level of their participation, I’m serious. I would bet money on Bale
    being Batman in this. Nolan’s Batman used a bat symbol very derivative
    of Batman Year One (suit, not cover logo, what was on his suit), Nolan’s
    Batman retired. His coming back is a return, Nolan purposely named his
    sequels after Batman’s nickname as “The Dark Knight”. Think he wanted to sit on it for a decade but decided with the way Warner Bros. wants to move on the property, The Dark Night Returns had to happen sooner than later. Snyder will direct but Nolan and Goyer will script. Nolan will produce and Bale will be Batman.

    • Joe

      I would also support this hypothesis. If indeed there are elements of The Dark Knight Returns in the next movie – over and above the quote – then Bale is best suited to return…and this movie will totally rock as a result. He will be aided possibly by JGL’s character (Robin) just as in the original story.

      If they bring Green Arrow into the mix (though highly doubtful!) to deliver the live-action coup-de-gras shot at Kal, I swear I’ll nerdgasm! :P

  • Atlasshruggedmyass

    Worlds Finest: Batman vs Superman

  • Nomis1700

    I’d still call it World’s Finest, that’s a good title.

  • Littertray

    They could have always gone the romantic route and called it When Batty meet Supey. Whole plot could involve them trying to find each other but can’t. Then at the end Clark can meet Bruce on top of the E.S.B at midnight…..

  • Ty

    Ill just say I don’t like the vs.

  • poppincherry

    First Goyer has to submit a rough drat to the studios so they can tear into it. My opinion is that this won’t happen.
    Here’s the plot hole to this shit.
    Since Superman can’t age and Bruce Wayne can, Supe can go sit his bitch ass down on the moon until Wayne dies or become an old man. Either way SM wins. My god, I just saved the studios 200 million plus another 100 million in advertising.
    Yes!

    • Lex Walker

      Superman does age. Remember how he was a little boy and became an adult. We call that aging.

  • LEM

    That’s a horrendous title either way and I’m actually amazed that’s what they’re going with. They really need to stop rushing things. They screwed up by not making moves earlier to establish stories and other heroes and now they’re so desperate to have an “Avengers” level movie they going to set themselves back again.

  • sense11

    They could call it “Kal-El & Bruce’s Excellent Adventure” and id still watch it. who gives a shit about the name.

  • Daniel O’Reilly

    If Warner’s wants to attract people, and not make them think the film is just some cheap, crappy cartoon, they will leave “vs.” out of the title.

    And Matt, I think what you meant to say was “The untitled Superman **Versus** Batman movie is due out in 2015.”

  • Shawn Pardu Hays

    really,,how the heck they gonna have a fight with these two,,,,tech vs machismo supreme,could be interesting,,,and why do two heroes fight each other,,,people will line up wondering what the heck are these two fighting eachother for,,,this movie is gonna come off as gimmicky. probably gonna be cool though

    • Joe

      You need to read the Dark Knight Returns or watch the animated movie for reasons why these two would fight each other. Batman did indeed go toe-to-toe with Supes and won before ‘dying’. Bruce is a far superior hand-to-hand combatant than Kal (see fight between Faora and Kal). He needs only two further advantages to beat Kal in a fist fight – kryptonian armor and kryptonite, which will most likely be introduced.

      • http://zoelogie.tumblr.com/ Baby Jean

        OK, but in that comic, Superman is a full-of-himself douchy g-man who’s charged by the government to stop vigilantes (among other things). The thorough whooping he received was deserved the first time around. The Superman of MoS, what could he have possibly done that warrants Bruce beating his a** ? You gotta remember, this is a sequel to MoS. You can’t antagonize the main character. Because Superman WILL be the main character of his own movie, won’t he ? I mean god forbid he actually got more screen time than the Bat :/ The more I think about this movie, the more anxious I get about Goyer and Snyder’s ability to craft a working script…

  • http://tarek-to-verso.over-blog.com/ tarek

    This is the best bad idea of the last century.

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  • bidi

    was anyone here at comic con? and can any of the site contributors confirm if this is in fact the official logo they’re going with, or just something they slapped together to erect penises? i’m only asking because feloniousmax had a very interesting hypothesis based on the logo, and i’m curious to know if they do plan on going with a lot from DKR.

    regardless, the logo change should be enough for people to know Bale isn’t coming back. i’d go from six to midnight if he signed on, but it ain’t happening. what will happen, though, is DC/Warners is gonna copy Marvel even more, and they’re gonna throw Batman in an Iron Man-like suit, similar to what he wore during the climax of DKR. this will let him fly and shit lasers and shit just like Superman. i bet it will be like the Batman Beyond suit. either way, i don’t like this. Batman needs to OUTSMART Superman to win. not just beat him with brute force or going mano a mano. and he needs some fucking kryptonite. like, bad

    • bidi

      SHOOT lasers*. but maybe shit them too. who knows. with Warners it’s a crap shoot

      • kins

        How to include Kryptonite in MoS-verse
        During some routine Museum robbery foiling
        While going after the robbers
        Superman passes near a rare stone exposed
        He loses he gets weak and passes out.

        News shows footage of Security Cam of The museum robbery.

        Batman, following all stuff surrounding Superman from the Cave, is intrigued by this and goes investigating.
        So Does Luthor who manages to get the stone first, and Batman gets just some little bits left on the spot.

        Both somehow meet and Luthor talks Batman into getting rid of the ”Threat” called Superman.

        (heavily inspired from both Animated series)

  • Don Vito

    Matt, you’re not funny, never have been.

    This movie sounds promising and really cool. Less destruction, more drama, good acting, please.

    • Jonboy

      With Zack Snyder directing? I don’t think so.

  • TheDarkKnight4Ever

    @ James Strong – It’s not going to be Nolan’s Dark Knight, that’s been made clear many times. Also, The Dark Knight doesn’t take down Superman by himself in the comic. He has help from the green arrow that shoots him an arrow made of kryptonite and then Batman gives him an awesome beating.

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  • Faptain America

    Gentlemen, relax. I’m sure they’ll work out the title once they write the story. We’ve all paid at least $40 for Goyer stories (3 Batmans and a Superman), we’ll be there in 2015, regardless of title. It’s a Man of Steel sequel, not a Dark Knight sequel, so it’ll reference Superman first, it seems to me.

    • http://zoelogie.tumblr.com/ Baby Jean

      Don’t be so suuuuuure ( Yashida-like ^_^)

      • Faptain America

        But we have struuuuuggled long enough. We are only moooooortal.

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