As the writer and producer of over 300 episodes of television and the creator of such shows as Girlfriends, The Game and Being Mary Jane, Mara Brock Akil is really making her voice heard and her vision seen on the OWN romantic drama series Love Is__. Set primarily in 1990s Los Angeles, the story follow Nuri (Michele Weaver) and Yasir (Will Catlett), who are inspired by Mara Brock Akil and husband/executive producer Salim Akil’s own love story, as they chase their dreams and learn to follow their hearts. Told from the perspective of the couple’s present-day selves, viewers will get to see how this power couple became who they now are, 20 years later.

During this 1-on-1 phone interview with Collider, creator/writer/executive producer/director Mara Brock Akil candidly and very honestly spoke about her journey to becoming a multi-hyphenated career woman in a very male-dominated industry, the mentors who nurtured her and helped her to believe in herself, finding value in her work when other people didn’t, never losing her own voice, getting passed the fear she had to finally step into the role of director, getting to cast and tell what is essentially her own love story, helping her husband, Salim Akil, realize his own storytelling vision for his CW series Black Lightning, and how they compliment each other, both personally and professionally.

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Collider: In an industry that’s still very male-dominated, what’s it like to be a multi-hyphenate and to be able to call yourself a creator, writer, executive producer and director?

MARA BROCK AKIL: I love that! It’s really a dream realized. It’s funny you would say that. When you come off the boat into Hollywood, people tell you what you can’t be. You start off from that very euphoric place and the utopian idea of what you can be because you’ve probably made a lot of sacrifices, just to get on that boat and off of it. And then, for people to tell you what you can’t do, and to have all those titles now, I just really thank God, all the time. How did I do it? I think I listened to my inner voice to just keep going, in spite of it all. From a practical perspective, I’ve had to develop shows and get them on the air when, in some way, the value was dismissive. My projects were used as a way to create what is inexpensive content, to help build the network. It didn’t have the value that I and my audience saw, but the core audience is black women, and we’ve been having a conversation, since I had an opportunity to be in this business.

I probably should pause here, for a second, to say that I actually was mentored by a man. I was nurtured by Ralph Farquhar, and then later, by Sara Finney-Johnson and Vida Spears, two black women. So, I actually was nurtured by my culture, in a safe environment that allowed me to build my confidence. And Debbie Allen was one of my mentors, along with Stan Lathan. I was around that tribe of great veterans that started something. They had value of their projects, that were also used to just launch networks and then got canceled. South Central got canceled, after Fox got sports, but at the time, we valued it. We valued the conversation and the nine episodes we got to put on air. That’s a part of my DNA. One of the things that my mentor Ralph always said was, “Mara, you pay it forward.” Whether or not the marketplace, or the network and studios that we were at, really valued it as much as they valued the other content, we did, and because we did, we got the opportunity to be successful enough to stay on the air.

For me, personally, I got to develop myself, as an artist, and continue a conversation with black women and black audiences, so authentically. It’s funny that black men, at first ,were worried about a show called Girlfriends because they thought that black men were gonna get bashed. They realized, “Wait a minute, we’re respected in this story.” We’re building a base that has stayed with us, throughout all of the different projects, that has actually given me staying power to get those titles that I saw in myself, when I got off the boat in 1993.

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I would imagine that finding and being able to maintain your own voice is really a huge portion of the battle, since everybody wants to give their opinion, which can make it easy to lose your own voice in all of that.

AKIL: I am very proud of my ability to master that art, in the very crucial stages of developing and launching a show. You have to be able to communicate and move the ball forward with vision. Also, because there was a lack of value, sometimes people don’t give you as much attention for what they don’t believe in. You’re not getting attention ‘cause they really don’t value your show that much, and if you look at it that way, on its face value, that’s hurtful. It’s painful that you don’t get the marketing campaign and that you have to keep going back to the actors and saying, “We only have so much.” You can look at it like that, or you can walk around the room and look at it from a different angle and see the blessing in it. The blessing that I saw in it was that it was an opportunity for us to create and to do the best with what we had, and that grew. That was seeded, it grew, it rooted, and now it’s a tree that is strong and that allows me to hang the different hyphenates and the content that I’ve been able to build and grow. I’m really thankful for my mother, my grandmother and my aunt, for having taught me that skill set because I think a lot of people get stuck in that. Even with the show Love Is__ and my love relationship, what I’m trying to say is that you can look at somebody one way and see the lack of value or the painful part or the part that is a “fail,” or you can walk around the room and see it as a blessing. You just have to see it from a different angle, and you can see the blessing in it. That’s a through-line in my career, and that’s a through-line in my love story with my husband.

Directing was the last hyphenate that you put in your hyphenate basket. Why were you so afraid to try directing, and how did you finally get over and past that fear?

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AKIL: It was two things. Where I thrive is with my hands on the keyboard, or my pen on the paper. One of the things I get to do, is I get to rewrite. I rewrite and I work hard on my scripts. You can rewrite until you’re “perfect,” and that’s something that’s safe for me. With directing, it’s all out there, in the moment and in real-time. The pressure and all of the eyes are on you, and you’ve gotta do it. That is the place that made me nervous. And then, he’s my husband, but my husband, as a director, is a beast. The confidence level, the swagger and the ability to communicate to an actor, in two words, it takes me 50 sentences to say.

As a producer, I can give the director a note, but I’m giving him a note based upon something they did versus, as a director, having to build the world, from the beginning. Directing my own work, I was like, “Okay, these words, at this moment, is not gonna work.” Before, when my husband would do that to me, as the director, I’d be like, “What?! This is brilliant!” He’d be like, “Mara, it’s too many words. It’s too much. You’ve gotta shorten this down.” Sitting next to him, as a director, that’s intimidating, but it also became comforting because he got a lot of my vision right. Not all of it, but a lot of it, so that was good. Since 80% of what I wanted to say is was there, I could live without the other 20%. So, I was really satisfied with the idea that Salim would direct the pilot. I was gonna direct on this [show], but I wasn’t necessarily gonna direct the pilot. I thought I might do Episode 2, and that I’d be right by his side, to help him direct the pilot.

So, when they said that he couldn’t do it because his schedule just wouldn’t allow it, they said, “Let’s look for other directors.” In that moment, the lion inside of me – the roar that’s been in there for a very long time – was like, “No, it’s your turn. You raise your hand and you put yourself out there. You’ll deal with not being perfect. You’ll just do your best. You’re ready, Mara, and you have a great team around you.” I had an amazing DP, Steven Calitri, an amazing production designer, Jerry Fleming, and amazing costume designer, Provi [Fulp Ramphal]. I was reminded that I can do this and that I’ve been sitting behind one of the best directors in the business. I said to Salim, “I’m scared because I won’t do it like you.” And he said, “Mara, that’s the beauty of it. You’re not supposed to do it like me. Baby, you got this!” And I did. There’s no stopping me now. I did the finale, too. I just don’t want to go backwards from it. I still have a lot to learn, but I’m really happy with what is inside of me, and I’m really glad that people can see how I saw my storytelling. What you’re seeing now, in Love Is__, is how I envisioned it, when I got off the boat in Hollywood. That’s how I wanted to tell stories. I still didn’t know how to do it, but that’s what I saw, and people are now seeing what I saw, 25 years ago. Girlfriends was a step to try to get there, The Game was on top of it, Being Mary Jane was next, and there was even Sparkle. I’ve been trying to get to this, and I’m really happy that I got there.

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How surreal is it to essentially be telling your own love story, and also have to cast the younger and older versions of yourself and your husband?

AKIL: It’s interesting, when the clay is on your hands, you’re just in it. Nuri and Yasir are separate from me and Salim. When I build a character on my other shows, I have the core essence of who they are. The funny part is the constant talking about yourself, as the character. That’s weird. It’s a little narcissistic and a little surreal, but I have to, at least, try to get to who I am, so I can go find the spirit of that in the actors. It became a really cool process, and it also became a very reflective one, personally, going through that and looking back on yourself. Going through the process and working with (casting director) Kim Coleman has been a dream. A great part of being a director is casting and having a vision for the people that are gonna help you get this story told. Kim spotted Michele [Weaver] and said, “There’s this young you,” and she even reminded me of myself. She said, “You and Salim break new talent, all the time. I know sometimes we want the name or the stars, and we’re gonna go after them, too, but just remember who you are. You guys have launched new talent, in this business, for a long time, and continue to do so. In fact, you need to think about Will Catlett, who’s on Black Lightning, too.” I was like, “You’re right! Thank you!”

It’s good to have people around you, who remind you of who you are and what you’ve done, when you go into this nervous place of trying to cast and launch a show. It was not a worry or a concern, after I saw Michele’s and Will’s auditions, and their chemistry read. Even though their resume wasn’t full of all of this “experience,” they clearly had been working on their craft and they were ready, prepared, had a lot to bring to the roles, and took direction beautifully. When you see this season, I think people should marvel at the fact that these fresh faces are doing such nuanced, deep, layered work that often gets Oscar nominations. Since we’re in the field of television, if the world is fair, we will be at the Emmys with them. I’m really proud of this project and of their performances.

I love when people responsible for shows see something in an actor or actors that they didn’t necessarily see in themselves. This show really brings out so much in Michele Weaver and Will Catlett.

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AKIL: Oh, yeah. They were magic in the audition, and that magic translated to the pilot, which is the hardest thing to sell. That’s the challenge of doing a romantic drama. Do you believe these two, and do you care if they’re together? And their chemistry was magic. It was God sent, and it was certainly prayed for. And to your point, whether they knew they had it in them or not, they knew that they were ready. That’s what I love about Will and Michele. They have a confidence about them, just like me and Salim, at the time, in our younger days. We may have been new and fresh, but we were confident and we were willing to do the work, and that’s what Will and Michele represent. They’re willing to do the work. It’s the same with Idara [Victor] and Tyrone [Marshall Brown], and Yootha [Wong-Loi-Sing] and Kadeem [Hardison]. With the characters that they’ve built, this cast is just phenomenal. With Clarke Peters and Wendy Davis, it’s hard to be compelling, sitting on a couch, but they’re compelling, sitting on a couch. I’m grateful. I prayed for each and every one of them, and they’ve delivered.

I have to say that I found Black Lightning to be such a wonderful surprise, over the last season. We have certain expects for a superhero show now, and I loved how that show really threw out all the things you’ve come to expect, which made it so great to watch. I’m excited for Season 2!

AKIL: Oh, I’m so glad! Our company believes in one vision, many voices, and that’s Salim’s vision. You’re seeing two artists – me at the helm of this show, and he at the helm of that show – who have something to say, we just needed a platform and we needed support. The CW lured us back to the network when Mark Pedowitz offered us that support of Salim’s vision. Then, you get to see an artist’s best work and, to your point, that can be unexpected and amazing to watch. I’m so happy to be the voice in Salim’s vision, but it is his vision. You can see that there is a core and a love of our people. We’re really adamant about the world seeing our humanity. That is one of the core things about our love story. It’s our mission to show the humanity of black people. When we entered this country, to others, we were not human, and it is part of our mission, as artists and storytellers, to talk about the beauty, nuance and texture of our humanity. That can resonate and connect with all of humanity. It’s okay to see the world through a black man’s lens, who’s a superhero, a great dad and a principal, who’s saving his community and staying there, committed to his community. That man exists in the world. And with Love Is__, you can see love and romance through the lens of this black girl and this black guy, who have a bunch of dreams. That’s a part of the fabric of America. There’s a broken-ness that this country has created, but it never breaks our spirit to be who and what we are. We deserve love. Everybody does. We can tell this story through that lens, and hopefully, on the other side of it, we’ll be reminded that we all deserve love and we can have it, if we define it ourselves. Black culture is beautiful, and black culture is a part of American culture. Black people are worth not only having love, but just living. Maybe then, we can then start to chip away at some of the mind-set that is also killing us.

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Combining business and personal doesn’t always work, but it seems that you and your husband have found a great way to make it work. What do you guys most enjoy about working together, and how do you feel you best balance each other out?

AKIL: For me, Salim is a great editor. I’m a long talker and a long writer, and he can see the best of what I’m trying to say and do. You’d probably have to ask Salim what I give him. I think I know, but that’s really his question to answer. Telling our story in this medium, in this business, sometimes people think you might have to compromise your vision to tell your story. I think that I’ve inspired and encouraged him that there’s a way you can do it. You can balance all of the business aspects and get your vision through this process. I’m really good at that stage of carrying an idea through to the launch of it. People get nervous, and that’s when things can fall apart. Salim is not very compromising, in that way. Now, he’s really great at pushing his vision through, and I think I helped encourage him to do that, in this marketplace. You don’t have to just do independent film. I think he thought that his career was gonna be in the independent film market, as a struggling artist to get his point of view across. I was like, “No, you could and should occupy a bigger platform,” and I’m so glad that he did. That’s a business thing.

From a personal thing, how we compliment each other and what I love about my husband is that he reminds me to slow down and smell the roses and to celebrate a moment, which is reflective in the pilot. Even when he was at his brokest, he knew to pause and celebrate a moment. We pause and celebrate and reflect. We also make space for our personal life. We have a rule – pre-kids, but even more so with kids – that when we cross the threshold of our house, we leave work outside of the door, and we’re present, as a husband and wife, and a mother and father. We create space for those roles. We love what we do, so part of our conversation is the dreaming and the thinking about story. It’s something that we like to do. I often tell people, if you see us driving around town, we’re probably creating a TV show ‘cause that’s what we do. We’re artists. Everything inspires us.

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If you put in the hard work, you definitely also have to take the time to enjoy it.

AKIL: Yes!

Because it’s definitely a lot of hard work.

AKIL: Thank you! I appreciate you noticing that and seeing that, and thank you for your interest.

Love Is__ airs on Tuesday nights on OWN.

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