From creator Michael Schur (Brooklyn Nine-Nine, Parks and Recreation), the NBC comedy The Good Place, which returns for its fourth and final season on September 26^th, is a unique and special story about what makes a good person, which is something that many of us strive to be. While it has surprise after surprise and twist after twist, at its core is Eleanor Shellstrop (Kristen Bell), an ordinary woman who’s had many ups and downs since entering the afterlife, and who’s become more and more determined to shed her own, more selfish way of living and earn herself a spot in The Good Place.

While at the NBCUniversal portion of the Television Critics Association Press Tour, Collider got the opportunity to sit down and chat 1-on-1 with actress Kristen Bell about how hard it is to say goodbye to such an incredible project, the collective agreement they made to end the show when Mike Schur found the perfect ending, what it was like to get that phone call telling her that this would be the last season, her reaction to the pitch for what would happen, and what led her to direct an episode this season. She also talked about returning to Veronica Mars, the strong fan reaction to the new season on Hulu, and what excites her about the possible future of the series, as well as whether she’d return for the recently announced revival of Gossip Girl for HBO Max, and coming to the end of the ride for Frozen 2.

*Be aware that there are major Veronica Mars spoilers discussed*

Collider: Do you feel like you’re going through a grieving process with The Good Place?

KRISTEN BELL: Yes.

Do you just carry Kleenex with you now, especially when you know that you’ll be talking about the show?

BELL: I don’t, and that’s a stupid decision. I should. I thought I wasn’t gonna cry. I psyched myself up because I’ve cried numerous times. We’ve known for a year, so it’s been an interesting way to process a long-term creative endeavor coming to an end. Normally, when a show ends, it’s canceled months after you’ve wrapped, and there’s this feeling that something’s been taken from you, or stolen from you, because you’ve been told that you can’t come back. This was a collective agreement that we made to end the show because Mike Schur found the perfect ending. He found an ending that is as meaningful as the reason he created the show. In the dictionary, there should be a picture of Mike under so many different words, beyond just intelligent, like consistency and empowering. In regard to consistency, he’s been consistent, from day one. He wanted to create a show that was a conversation starter, and the ending is a conversation starter. It’s also deeply, deeply meaningful. I don’t think anyone will see it coming. It’s so fucking beautiful, and it was very hard to do.

As an actor, you’re trained to pay attention to story. There are a thousand ways to live your life. You can get lost in just wanting the paycheck. You can get lost in yourself and your own character, or you can pay attention to story. That’s what I was taught, and that’s what I’ve tried to commit to. It’s the most well-intentioned integrity. It has a ton of integrity. It’s the most well-intentioned ending that has meaning and will hopefully be a whole other conversation starter for people. Sorry, I know that seems so dramatic, but this has been such a cool experience for me to do something that fulfills me creatively. I love to make people laugh, and being allowed to say the words of this particular writing team is like, forget it. What am I? I’m literally the luckiest girl in the world. But then, there’s this fusion of who I’ve become, as an adult, and these maternal feelings that I have towards the world, and this idea that I commit to, in my marrow, that there’s no such thing as other people’s children. The whole world has to just learn how to try for each other, and to be able to fuse those ideas is an incredible sensation. I have a lot of desire to see goodness in the world. Many people say, “Do it with your art,” and I truly got to do that here.

When you got that phone call telling you that the series was ending, did Mike Schur also tell you what that ending would be, or did you find that out later?

BELL: No, I found it out about a week later. But he said, “Come into the office, and I’ll pitch you.” Mike Schur is one of the best orators on the planet. When he pitched me Season 2, he said, “And then, Tahani would say something in Episode 4 like . . .,” and deliver a line, and then say, “And Eleanor would respond with something like . . .,” and then deliver the joke. He has an incredible memory, and an incredible ability to tell a story. So, I wanted to give him the respect of sitting down and not just being like, “How does it end? Oh, that happens? Okay.” I went in and he said, “Here’s how it’s gonna go down.” I just stared at him while he gave me a 10-minute synopsis, and it was just beautiful.

How close was that final script to what he said, when he pitched you?

BELL: It was even better because I was able to live it, moment to moment, in the script versus just hearing the download of the entire season. The emotional moments, the sequence of events, and the journey that we take people on – with people’s failures, Jason’s absurd antics, Eleanor’s selfishness, Tahani’s pretentiousness, and their failings and successes – it creates this connective tissue because people are allowed to see, “Oh, I’ve failed like that before. Oh, I’ve made that decision.” The whole goal of the show was to connect to the audience and say, “Hey, there’s all sorts of people in the world. There’s not one way to be right. There are a thousand ways. Let’s discuss a couple hundred of those thousand ways here. And let’s laugh while we do it.”

What’s it like to also take that step to direct, and why was this the right opportunity and show to do that with?

BELL: Well, because I have the ultimate support system here. I’ve never been in better hands. Mike, Morgan Sackett and David Hyman, who produce, are just the best. I have complex feelings about actors that direct, and I’m gonna be honest about that. I’ve never taken the opportunity because I didn’t go to school for directing. There are people and there are women that went to school and learned how to direct. They’re not trying to take my part. That’s important to me, to think that through. Is it something I really wanna do? Am I just taking it because it’s here? Because I would be taking a position from someone else. With this particular show, I felt that I was qualified because I know the material so well. I was also really encouraged and empowered by Mike, Morgan and David, and our producing team, who said, “We know you, inside and out. This is the right step for you to explore this side of yourself.” So, I have mindfully not taken advantage of that, in the past, and I mindfully took advantage of it, this year. It was wonderful. It was a great way to stretch my wings.

Did this experience make you want to do it more?

BELL: Yes, but perhaps not on a show that I wasn’t as familiar with. The reason I think I was successful is because I’m so familiar with even just the inner emotional workings of this whole crew. I’ve worked with a ton of directors, some that have entered into these crew and cast families seamlessly and some that have had rocky roads, and it’s hard because you’re really in someone else’s home. You’re cooking a meal in someone else’s home. So, I would probably wanna do it on a show that I knew really well. Beyond that, I’m not sure I’m ready. I’m not confident with myself, and I can say that with confidence. There are other people more qualified to have a take on something, and I’m totally fine in admitting that.

Does it feel like you would take on an episode of Veronica Mars, if you have more seasons of that?

BELL: Oh, wow. I know that, inside and out, for sure. The answer is maybe because I know what an undertaking that show is. The Good Place is a very different show than Veronica Mars. Not just being a one-hour, but with the noir aspect, the drama and the stunts, it’s a lot bigger of a project. And I don’t know that, at the place I’m at in my life, if I’m ready to put in all the extra work. It’s enough work to be an actor. To take on double that, I don’t know if that’s what my kids deserve right now. But when my kids are a little older, for sure. I don’t mind working long hours. What I mind is being taken away from them.

What’s it been like to revisit Veronica Mars, but at the same time see the fan reaction, which I would imagine you knew was going to be strong? Was it what you expected, or was it bigger than you expected?

BELL: It was bigger than I expected. Some people had Veronica Mars as their avatar, and then used a crossed-out symbol. I was like, “This hurt people.”I don’t even know if I should talk about it because I don’t wanna make anyone angry, but I’m allowed to state my opinion. I would say that I hope people recognize without conflict, there is no show. They would be dissatisfied, if we had a perfect show. It would be lame. It would not be a reinvention of anything. It would not make any progress in Veronica’s life. I understand why they’re upset about Logan. I love Logan, too. I love Jason [Dohring]. Are you kidding me?! You think you’re losing? I don’t get to work with Jason, every day. He’s one of my dearest friends, and our kids play together, so that’s a bummer. But Veronica does best as the underdog, and Rob writes well for her when she’s the underdog. If she had a perfect relationship, there wouldn’t be a show.

Also, the one thing that I struggled with was why people were so upset when she turned down Logan’s proposal. Humbly, I’m so happy being married with two kids. I love the white picket fence that I’ve got. But I’m Voltaire about the fact that’s not right for everyone. I may not agree with what you say, but I’ll fight to death for your right to say it. Not everyone wants to have kids. Not everyone wants to get married. Veronica does not want to get married, right now. She is not ready, and that is her choice. And I didn’t love that people were like, “Why can’t she just marry Logan?” Well, because she doesn’t need a man to fix all her problems. She hasn’t had good examples of marriage. She’s not ready to commit. The true test of feminism is whether or not you’re gonna agree with her, or whether or not you think she should have something different because society states she should. So, it was interesting to me to see so many people upset about that because I thought we had distanced ourselves from John Cusack with the boombox outside our window being right for everyone. It’s not a love story that’s wrapped in a perfect bow. It’s okay for Veronica to have complex feelings about marriage because she’s being honest with herself.

What excites you about what the show could be, if you do get to continue?

BELL: It excites me to see Veronica in a situation where she’s uncomfortable because those are the situations that she fights hardest in. She is never complacent with injustice, so I would love to see Rob thrust her into a world where she starts to recognize it and has to formulate a plan. I like the idea of unleashing that superhero.

It was also announced that Gossip Girl is coming back, with the same creative team. Have you thought about whether or not you’d want to go back to that? Has there been a conversation about returning?

BELL: Yes. Adding anything to your plate when you have a four and six year-old is never easy, but it’s being discussed. We’re figuring out whether it can work. I certainly hope it does. To be honest, it’s mainly a time thing, of whether or not I can give those hours because of all the other obligations I’ve committed to, and the things that I wanna do with my life and my kids, and become a little bit more present, now that I don’t have a full-time job. I still work with Baby2Baby and No Kid Hungry, and I’m a UN Women’s Peace and Humanitarian ambassador, and I work with Immigrant Families Together. Those things drive me, during the day, and are the main amount of work that I do. Plus, I do this Apple show for Josh Gad, called Central Park, and then I produce a show on Amazon, called Do, Re & Mi, and I’m also a voice there, and I’m wrapping up Frozen. So, having two other voice-over jobs, I’m trying to figure out if I can be available for them when they need me, and I really hope that it works out.

You’re wrapping up Frozen 2.

BELL: Yeah, it’s been a long ride.

It must be so fun to see progression of those characters, especially when it feels like the sequel could go just about anywhere because there was no obvious next step.

BELL: I agree. And the reason they didn’t green light it so quickly is because nobody knew what it was gonna be. Nobody wanted it to be Episode 2 of Frozen, where Anna lost her shoes. No. It was about, what are the emotional undercurrents where we can show growth and character development in these people? What are we saying? It’s not just about providing a problem and have an end of a second act, and then a third act. It’s a beautiful story, and I think it says something pretty powerful. I’m glad that they took the time that they did because I think it’s really good. And it’s definitely a different Frozen. It’s a more developed Frozen.

Which you want.

BELL: Yeah. They took so much time with it, for a reason. It went through so many filters, and Jen [Lee] kept going back to the drawing board, until she got it exactly right. To even find the story, she journaled, as the characters, for months. She would open a journal and be like, “What’s Anna doing today?,” just to find where she’s stunted, where does she needs to grow, and what’s important. It was pretty impressive.

The Good Place returns for its fourth and final season on NBC on September 26^th.