Academy Award-winning composers Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross did not set out to have careers scoring music for films, and because they’re not beholden to making sure they know where their next scoring job is coming from, they look for projects that will challenge them, in some way. With the ultimate goal of satisfying the director that they’re collaborating with, Reznor and Ross also like to push the boundaries of whatever genre they’re working in, and their latest project, Patriots Day (now in theaters nationwide), is no exception.

Collider was recently invited to the London Hotel in West Hollywood to chat with acclaimed musicians Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross about their work on the Peter Berg film about the events surrounding the Boston Marathon bombing and the manhunt that followed. During the in-depth interview, they talked about how they weigh their options, their desire to color outside the lines and work emotionally and from the heart, the challenge of scoring an ever-evolving film, and how the collaboration with Berg compared to their previous experience with David Fincher (they’ve scored The Social Network, The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and Gone Girl). Reznor also talked about why he’s not really interested in taking on a superhero film, that he’s intrigued by the idea of scoring for TV, and how he ended up in Showtime’s return of Twin Peaks.

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Collider: Patriots Day is a powerful story that not only pays attention to detail, but also gives a real humanity and human face to the heroes that came out of such a tragedy. There are so many ways that this film could have gone wrong, but it handled the situation beautifully. What was it about the story that spoke to you and made you want to sign on as composers for the film?

TRENT REZNOR: We worked on the [David] Fincher films, did a lot of Nine Inch Nails stuff, and then we did some separate things for a couple of years. I was touring and [Atticus] took on some other projects. Early last year, we talked about, “Let’s take the next few years and do things together.” There were some options that we both had come in, and we were really thinking about what we’re trying to do. We’re not just trying to take any work, so we had to figure out what’s exciting to us, or what we’re trying to prove. The main thing was just to find something that felt interesting and felt like something we hadn’t done, and force ourselves into a situation that is unfamiliar and learn from it. And there wasn’t any good rom-coms to pick from. This film had been talked up to us, and we read the script and [Atticus] had met with Pete [Berg] a couple of times.

ATTICUS ROSS: I spoke to him on the phone.

REZNOR: And then, we sat down with Pete and our first concern was basically what you just voiced. We’re not interested in something that could go in one of those directions, like super pro-American drum banging. Quite honestly, I hadn’t thought that much about this trend of re-creations of fairly recent events. I’m not sure exactly what the point of it is, although I enjoyed United 93. Anyway, Pete did a good job of convincing us, with the utmost respect, that this is to do not only Boston proud, but to investigate the story. They didn’t know if it was over. It was a terrifying several days of figuring out what was actually happening. And I had forgotten some of the actual story from the news, of what had gone down. So, we read the script and this is really a procedural, at its core. Aside from getting assurance from Pete that what he was going to do, as a filmmaker, was aligned with what we thought would be tasteful, we wanted to make sure that he had the right expectations of what we wanted to do, musically.

Our whole thing is that neither of our career trajectories, as a child, was, “I can’t wait to score films.” I’m not saying that with disrespect, but it came upon both of us, somewhat accidentally. It’s an exciting medium to work in, but we find it filled with mediocrity and a lot of very turn-key, scoring by numbers type of stuff, that can work. It’s like a good pop song that’s designed to do that thing. We’re not interested in knowing how to do that, or to replicate that. We wanted to make sure Pete was okay with the idea of us coloring outside of the lines, a little bit. In our minds, we could take this film and elevate it into feeling something even less specific about Boston and more about today, or what might be the result of today. Something in the fabric of society is tearing, so we thought maybe we could make this film a little wider and create a sonic pallette that’s a bit more interesting than what it could be. And he was all up for that. So, we thought, “Fuck it! Let’s see what happens.”

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Image via CBS Films

This score is subtle, but also a bit unnerving, at times, and it always works in perfect synchronicity what Peter Berg is showing on screen, really underlying and making you feel the emotion.

REZNOR: And that was a bit of a challenge. When Fincher first came to us with The Social Network, I panicked because I don’t know the procedure. I don’t know how you do it or where you start, or if every character has a song. I don’t know what I’m doing. But what we chose to do is think emotionally and purely from the heart. We wanted to find what feels like sound and music that fits the scenario and the moods, and not over think, in terms of the formula of how you do it or the practical execution of it. It’s more about, if I were experiencing this, what would I be hearing in my head? We want to make sure, when working with someone new, that their expectation isn’t that thing that everyone knows works, like the thunderous drums or the low brass shit. I’m not that interested by that. That’s not the music that’s playing in my head when I’m experiencing life. We never start saying, what could be the weirdest thing we could do that might not serve the picture, but won’t we look cool? Look at us, we’re avant garde. That never crossed our mind. We just don’t want to be forced into doing something that we don’t know how to do or aren’t interested in doing.

How did you ultimately find the experience of collaborating with Pete Berg, especially compared to David Fincher? Are the experience with those filmmakers similar, at all, or are they very different?

ROSS: It is a different process. With Fincher, generally speaking, the experience has been that we’ll go and see a version of the film. I’ll take the last one, Gone Girl, as an example. We saw a version of that film, three weeks before he had finished shooting, that was basically the finished film with the missing scenes. Of course, it changed, but it didn’t radically change. I loved it when I saw it then. We sat down and watched it, and then talked. He definitely has a vision, and he lets you in on some of it. It’s an adventure, but there’s an order to things, and it could be the familiarity of having done it a few times. But with Pete, there were other forces at work that were beyond his control or our control, one of which was schedule. He was literally finishing one film, at the same time as starting this film. In terms of their musical direction, it was a completely open book. He said, “Do whatever you want,” which is interesting and freeing.

There were many different reasons for taking on the film, but one that was interesting was that, if one were able to take the genre and not be weird for the sake of being weird but bring it to life in a way that you haven’t experienced before and is something that is interesting and fascinating and keeps us feeling excited in the studio for several weeks, than that seems like a worthwhile proposition. In terms of the actual trajectory, Patriots Day was a moving target. With Fincher, we’d sit and watch the film several months before, or at least a couple of months before. With this, when it premiered at AFI, it was on Thursday, and there were picture changes on Wednesday. It was just the nature of the beast. There’s also 114 minutes of music in the score. It was like being on our toes, the whole time, because it was a moving target. The picture, as the weeks would go passed, would change and the film would get better, but it wouldn’t be, “We’ve lost a few frames here, and we’ve done some ADR here.” It would be, “That scene that used to be there, is no longer there. Now it’s this.” They were finding the film. It’s no critique. I presume every director has his own process and, as composers, you’re on board for that process. It was a challenging and an interesting time.

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Image via CBS Films

When you guys get approached with projects, are there films that you’re immediately closed off to? With superhero movies being so huge, is that something you’d ever be interested in?

REZNOR: I don’t think there is a blanket stamp. Really, it’s about, is there something either in the story that’s being presented to us, for what the film might be like, or an interesting presence or gravitas that the director brings to it. It also just has to resonate with us. There are a couple things that we each passed on, before even trying to get, that are awards contenders and A-list, high-rating, probably going to win films, and our reasons for passing weren’t that we didn’t think they were good films. We just didn’t know if they were right. You either feel like you have something to say, or you don’t. Often, some things happen at the same time and you can’t say yes to all of it, so you make a choice. The superhero thing is something that both of us have very little interest in. I’ve seen a boat load of them, but the role of music in there always feels like the stuff I don’t pay attention to. I see a lot of films and, a lot of times, I don’t even notice what the score is. I’ll notice it if it’s excellent, or if it’s really shitty, but a lot of times, if it’s doing its generic thing, I don’t pay that much attention to it. That’s really it.

We’re not treating this like it’s our career. We’re not making decisions based on what would further us down the ladder to whatever the next step or level is. It really is trying to selectively choose things that we learn from. We learned from this film. It wasn’t all pleasant. Part of the maddening thing is that, because the picture kept coming in hot and changing and we realized that was going to continue up until the last second we could, we had to alter the way we composed to be a bit more modular to write suites of themes that could interact with each other, be it complimentary keys or time signatures that could accommodate and ever-shifting picture. Our first priority is to be in service to the picture and do what’s right, but as composers, we’re also trying to make something that feels like it has an introduction and can set up some expectations or themes that can be explored later, so that when you hear it, you realize that you heard it in a different context and it ties into something that feels like it resolves. But all of that was a deck of cards that had been thrown on the floor, and as you’re putting them in order, someone takes a wind blower and blows them again. It gets difficult. The theme that made sense, now doesn’t make any sense ‘cause you didn’t hear what set it up since that isn’t there anymore. And there’s a new thing you’ve never seen before that now needs something to fill the gap until you get to the next thing.

There’s a limit to how much of that you expect, and then there’s what this turned into, at times, where it was constant. Sometimes it’s hard to keep your spirits up. With Nine Inch Nails, I’m the boss. I get to do what I want to do, and if it sucks, then it’s my fault. But at the end of the day, the decision lies on me. It’s been exciting to work in service to a director and to a picture, and not be the one writing the story, but the one who has to support the story. It’s been an interesting role. When it isn’t that much fun is when it’s in flux, but not because of what you’re doing. And then, it feels like a hamster on a wheel, trying to solve an equation, but the answer keeps changing. I don’t mean to go on and on about that ‘cause it wasn’t a miserable experience. We asked for something that was unfamiliar. We wanted to work in a big Hollywood sturdy picture that plays in cinemaplexes, and was not the little art film that can get away with anything. I’m not discrediting that. But we wanted to take on a picture like this, that has a mainstream appeal, and see if we could pull it off in a way that felt smart and satisfying to us. That was a challenge with someone we didn’t know. All those things added up to being a lot of work.

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Image via CBS Films

Did that lack of control inspire you to go back to Nine Inch Nails, so that you could be more fully in control?

REZNOR: Yeah. The cycle works in a way where, as long as we choose the right things in the right frequency, often they’re at the same time. We did this at the same time as the Nine Inch Nails EP, which sounds nothing like this, and the Before the Flood score, which doesn’t sound like either one of those. It wasn’t every day that we were switching, but it was like a week at this, a couple days at that, and then a week at that. That we found to be a pretty healthy, inspiring way that allowed us to dive to the bottom of the pool, but you know you get to come up for air in a minute. You know you can get out. It’s when you’re down there and there’s a foot on the back of your neck that’s going to last for four months, that’s when it can get a bit much. But at he moment, this method of working on multiple things at once feels like we’re able to go deeper in each thing.

ROSS: The other thing is that we do allot a considerable amount of time to each project. I don’t know for sure, but my guess is that some of those guys are probably working on a turn-around schedule of doing a film every six weeks, or whatever it might be. I think the thing that would horrify us most is if we felt our part wasn’t the best that we could do. I do feel that, in this scenario, that was the best that we could do. Given that, that dictates how much time we’ll take. We’ll take as much time as is needed to get the best that can be done. Before the Flood had its own schedule because it was the election. Not that it did any good, but that was the goal. But we were still probably on that for at least a couple of months, maybe more.

REZNOR: We’ll talk to each other and say, “Before the Flood, that could probably be done in a couple of week,” and then we’ll triple it, at least. Same with [Patriots Day]. We’re not very smart when it comes to business model stuff.

Are you guys working with David Fincher on his new Netflix series, Mindhunter? Do you even want to score a TV series, or is that too much of a time commitment?

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Image via CBS Films

ROSS: I haven’t spoken to David, but I’ve done TV. It really, really is such a huge commitment. I couldn’t believe how much work that takes. I can’t speak to the Fincher thing. Having done it, it’s not something that I’m desperate to do again. If it was Fincher, it’s a different matter. But generally speaking, episodic is hard work.

REZNOR: Having not done it, I think there’s arguably better stuff coming out on TV, in terms of sustained interest. I’m intrigued. If the right thing came along, I would consider it, sure.

Trent, as a huge fan of Twin Peaks, I’m curious, how did you end up in the new season?

REZNOR: I’m with you on that. I’m friends with David Lynch. He directed some stuff for us, and I’ve scored little bits of stuff, in the past, for him. The call came in and the answer was yes. It’s as simple as that.

Is David Lynch someone you’d never say no to?

REZNOR: I love David and I love his work. Twin Peaks had a special place in my heart, and I think it’s largely responsible for a lot of what’s transpired in the medium of television, as an archetype of episodic storytelling. It certainly broke boundaries back then. So, the last time I’d seen him, I was urging him, “You’ve gotta do something! Come back!” That was a few years ago, and I’m happy to see he’s taken on this massive project.

Patriots Day is now playing in theaters.