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Warning: Venom spoilers are discussed in this interview.

Shortly before Venom arrived in theaters, I sat down with producers Avi Arad and Matt Tolmach for a spoiler-filled conversation about the making of the film and future projects. Now that the film has been out for a little while, we can dive into all of the specifics, including why certain decisions were made.

During the interview, Arad and Tolmach talked about Easter eggs you may have missed, the decision to include She-Venom, if they ever thought about making Venom R-rated, if they battled the MPAA for the PG-13 rating, how they landed Woody Harrelson for Carnage, why they decided to attach a scene from Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse at the end of Venom, the status of Morbius with Jared Leto and the possible rating, the status of the next Jumanji sequel, and a lot more.

Check out what they had to say below.

Venom follows disgraced reporter Eddie Brock (Tom Hardy) who comes into contact with an alien symbiote that turns him into the creature known as “Venom”. The film also stars Riz Ahmed as Dr. Carlton Drake, Michelle Williams as Anne Weying, Jenny Slate as a scientist working for Drake, and Reid Scott as a doctor trying to help Brock.

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Image via Sony

Collider: The first thing that I'm curious about is Easter eggs. Is there any reference in the movie to Peter Parker or Spider-Man and did I miss it?

AVI ARAD: Yes, you missed it. He's sitting with a girl, right?

You're talking about Tom Hardy?

MATT TOLMACH: Yeah.

ARAD: Okay, and Michelle, right?

TOLMACH: In the restaurant. And she says, "You don't want to repeat." Right?

ARAD: "We don't want a repeat of New York." Then, the other reference, his boss at the network.

Let me backtrack. I meant, is there anything with Daily Bugle? Is there anything with Spider-Man, not just the New York reference?

ARAD: Well, the newspaper where he worked last, before he came out, is in this dinner, okay? And then, you have John Jameson is the astronaut.

TOLMACH: That's the guy who, in the beginning, has the Symbiote.

ARAD: You missed it?

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Image via Sony Pictures

Completely missed it. 

TOLMACH: So Drake says, "Is that Jameson?"

ARAD: Aren't you happy you came in?

TOLMACH: You gotta' go see the move again. This interview is over.

The first time you watch a movie you're just trying to pay attention. 

TOLMACH: I totally agree with you.

Are there other Easter eggs for comic book fans that people can look for, because obviously the two of you are hoping to bring to life, a number of other properties, in the Spider-Man universe.

ARAD: Well, I think the biggest plant of seed is Woody [Harrelson].

TOLMACH: What happens at the end of the movie.

Oh, that's a whole thing we're going to talk about in a second.

ARAD: Other than that, the only thing that if you are an uber fan of planet of the Symbiote, you will worry about the next invasion.

TOLMACH: Klyntar.

ARAD: Because that's what it's about, that planet of the Symbiotes.

A lot of people want to know about the rating. Was there ever a version of the script, and the story, that you guys envisioned as an R-rated movie? I understand both sides of the coin. I understand PG-13 fits in with Spider-Man, and that's the Marvel mantra, but we've also seen success at the box office, with R-rated movies, with the Deadpool universe.

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Image via Sony

ARAD: Here is the mindset, very simple. Mindset is, you make the best movie about Venom and Eddie you can. If the difference between biting someone's head, and seeing the blood drooling and piled on the floor, you pick up, put it back in your mouth, or making it a moment that he said, "Ah, that's a bad guy, right?" Yeah, and then he does this, right? That's PG-13. So, we wanted to push the movie into the darkness it deserves on one hand, but the fun scene of the fish out of water, the meeting of Eddie, and Venom, and it's a buddy movie. The two of them got together, they influenced each other, and they created moments of levity.

TOLMACH: The answer to your question is, we always intended to make a PG-13 movie. There's a narrative out there that there's some R rated cut line somewhere.

I never thought that. 

TOLMACH: No, we've heard that today. Which is cool, for people to have theories. We always wanted to literally take it as far as you could go. In England, I think we're a 15 plus. That's how we saw this that, there's a crazy, rabid fan base of young people, that love it. When I say young people, teenagers, 12-year-olds, 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds, who love Venom, and then there's a crazy rabid fan base of old people like us, who love the character. So, how do you serve both? IYou go as hard as you can, at PG 13.

But also, in the bones of our movie, you've seen it. We wanted to make a movie that was fun, popcorn, all of that, but that had the intensity of Venom. So, the effort every day was to try to push it, and push it, and push it, but not go so far, as Avi saying, into the realm of R.

The MPAA, you can't say this, but I can, is a full of shit operation. It's terrible. 

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Image via Sony

ARAD: How dare you.

TOLMACH: We won't quote you on that.

I'll say it, so you don't have to, but I'm curious. Did you have any sort of battle, over any frames, that you needed to pull back a frame or two, to keep the PG 13?

ARAD: Okay, you'll have to believe us on this. They had a couple of little notes. That's it. And I'll tell you why. Because the two of us are making Spider-Man movies for way too long, and other movies in the Marvel Universe that they used to make, that had the same challenge. X-Men could have been R, could have been PG-13. For me, I would have lost a mission, making X-Men R. Because I wanted kids to see it. Same kids who went to the animation? So, we went in with our experience, and what we wanted to make that, we don't take something that cannot be soft and make it soft., where we go there, they tell us you cannot do it. We knew what we want to do, a PG-13. So, by the time we got there, I don't know, we had two notes?

TOLMACH: Yes, but it was super close. It always is, you're right. But sometimes, you have a lot of work to do.

I have spoken to many filmmakers, and I look at something with movies where they say, "fuck" twice, and all of a sudden, it's rated R.

ARAD: Well, I'll tell you, I was nervous about "Fuck" once.

TOLMACH: I know movies that are R-rated because they had one too many. And you gotta look at, "Was that good? Was it good? Did you lose audience in there, because you got your thing, did it change the experience of the movie because they said it twice?"

I definitely want to ask you about the two after the credits scenes. Let's start first with, Woody Harrelson, and Carnage. When did you know that, you wanted that to be the coda if you will, the after the credits scene? And talk about getting Woody, because obviously, anyone who signs to be in the movie at the end, to play Carnage, has to be signed for the next movie, in case you get to make a sequel.

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Image via Sony

TOLMACH: We always knew it was gonna be Carnage, because it's hard to say, "Venom" without Carnage. It's Venom and Carnage. We knew we wanted to make a Venom movie that was the origin of Venom, in this movie. If you made a Venom and Carnage movie right up front, then you're..

ARAD: Then you have two complicated origins.

TOLMACH: You have two origins, and it really limits. We thought about it long and hard. It limits what you can do with the origin of Venom. So, what do you do with that? Well, then the movie itself becomes the origin of Venom, and then Carnage enters the equation. That was always the idea, that you would be setting it up, from the very beginning.

I did Zombieland as an executive with Ruben. Ruben is very close to Woody from that movie. Woody and Tom Hardy occupy amazing actor space, and knew each other. We went and sat with Woody in London, had dinner with Woody, and Tom, and they just really dug the idea of doing this thing together, and you could see two great legends that are like, "We're gonna go. We're gonna set this up, and then we're gonna go do our thing together." So, it wasn't hard. Woody's a fan.

I think Tom is an amazing actor. I also think Woody's an amazing actor, and having the two of them signed on to a possible sequel, that sounds awesome. 

TOLMACH: It's incredibly awesome, and there wasn't a lot of arm twisting, because Woody was really psyched for it.

One of the most anticipated movies for me, for the rest of the year is, Spider-Man: Into the Spiderverse. I cannot wait to see it. I am over the moon for this movie.

ARAD: That was the hardest one to make.

Everything I've heard about this movie is, you want to go frame by frame, and just analyze it. Talk about putting in the whole scene at the end of the movie. Talk about how the decision came, to put this scene at the end of Venom.

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Image via Sony Pictures

ARAD: Recently, as we started sharing frames, and this and that, on the multiverse, everybody realized that they got something on their hands that has never been done. The story is amazing. I think it's about time to have Miles Morales as a Spider-Man. We always wanted to do that. Marvel is about diversity, not in the early days, but finally, everybody found religion. So, as people started reacting in an amazing way, to the little they saw here and there, the studio felt that putting in this piece is maybe advantageous, and there's nothing to hide. It's all good. You know, sometimes you don't do it, because how people will react. It's fucking perfect, okay? I don't know how many people are gonna see it after end credits twice, but it doesn't matter, because the people who care, they'll go again anyhow, and it's a very different journey, but it's a great journey for us, as another opportunity for us and Sony to go into another world. It can cross live action.

TOLMACH: Yeah, that's the thing, it leaves you with, "oh my God, the possibilities are so huge for all of these movies, to live next to each other, or with each other." And the footage is also just mind blowing.

Let's jump back into Venom. So, you have a little bit of She-Venom in the movie. How early on did you know that would be included? 

ARAD: We always had [She-Venom], before we knew what the story is, when you and I used to riff Venom, we always had the moment that either he saves her, or she saves him. And it worked so well. So we always wanted to do it. I'll tell you what really was important to us, is to feel that we finally got the body, the goo, the motion of the Venom scene under control. That was the time to do it, but it was always in the story.

TOLMACH: Yeah, it was. You have this unbelievable actor, Michelle Williams, and it's like, of course she's gonna come along, these two guys tripping over each other, she's the one that's gonna fucking set it straight, and we loved that. We just loved the spirit of that.

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Image via Sony

There's a lot of stuff going on in the Spider-Man universe that Sony is hoping to bring to life. I'm curious where you're at with some of these other projects, and what do you think might be the next one?

ARAD: Well, we know the next one.

TOLMACH: Morbius is the next one.

So Jared Leto is definitely doing it? 

TOLMACH: Yes, sir.

ARAD: Oh yeah. This is the great thing for us now, that an actor like him, and an actor like Tom wanted to have their own character. But the character they love. Both of them, very hard to get them to do a movie. You actually cannot get them. We went in, we sat with them, and everybody told us, "Oh, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba." Nothing. That's what he wanted to do.

TOLMACH: Tom, you mean.

ARAD: Tom. And Jared, too. We went to this place with them, and he just...good actors want to be different than what they are.

Do you know when you start filming?

ARAD: More or less, February?

TOLMACH: Yeah, the plan is early part of next year. We're still working on it.

Who wrote the most recent draft?

TOLMACH: Well, [Burk] Sharpless and [Matt] Sazama are the guys who wrote the script. They wrote the script.

The interesting thing about Morbius is that's another character that can go a whole bunch of different ways. Do you envision all of these Spider-Man spinoffs are all PG 13? Do you think there's any character, or any part of the universe that could go to R-rated release?

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Image via Sony Pictures

ARAD: Again, what I said to you before, it depends on the story. If the success of the story depends on being R-rated...

TOLMACH: Then it could be, yeah.

ARAD: Then, of course, we can do it. But at least for me, I have grandkids, kids, whatever, all these things, and some of these movies, they're dying to see. You know? As I took my grandson, seven, to the recording session of Venom. And he had the time of his life.

TOLMACH: I don't think there's a rule written somewhere in stone that all of them have to be one thing, alright? I think what Avi's saying is right. I think we've all talked about, "Well, if one of these presents itself in a way..." Look, we have all seen, as you've said, the R-rated versions of these movies now working. So, that's out there. You can succeed to a staggering degree.

ARAD: We couldn't have done Suicide Squad PG-13. Just language, or Deadpool, just language. On language alone, which is obscene. There's no parent out there, that doesn't look at their kid, "Shut the fuck up." So, it's not like it's going to be a shocking situation for them, but if we can make it more accessible because people love the Marvel characters.

TOLMACH: Without compromising the character.

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ARAD: We didn't compromise anywhere. You saw the movies. There is no compromise. That was Venom.

No, completely. Because again, I'm representing all of the fans out there that, because there's a lot of people who are older, and you're trying to hit both audiences with PG-13. Because maybe Morbius or maybe certain characters, like, oh, this has to be-

TOLMACH: Then I think it's absolutely possible. For sure.

ARAD: You know what? When you hear Venom...forget Venom. When you hear, Carnage, the only thing you can think of is R. But, if you know his story, if you really know the comic, there's no R here. He's a tortured soul. It's not about what he does, because we never have to show the knife going from here to there, and the blood is pouring. What you have to show is, what is the motivation? Was he born like that, or it's someone we should feel for, because if you are succeeding to make a villain someone you can feel for, jackpot.

I'm gonna switch again, to another subject. I believe you're doing Jumanji.

TOLMACH: Yes, sir. 

Where are you at with the next sequel? Do you have a title yet?

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Image via Sony Pictures

TOLMACH: We are starting. We're gonna shoot that movie in the end of January. It'll be coming out next Christmas. Title TBD. But that movie's very, very real and very on.

With the next one, I'm wondering if it's gonna be the cast we've currently seen mixing with another game that's another group cast? What can you tease about how these characters are coming back?

TOLMACH: I feel like such a politician, not answering you, which I hate because I want to just give you an answer, but I also don't want to blow...

Yeah, I don't want to get you into trouble. 

TOLMACH: It's not even trouble. It's like, all I can tell you is, when you work on a movie that lands like that one did—and I don't just mean the success of it in the box office, people really dug that movie, which is great—then the bar is personal. It's like, we gotta make another movie that people feel that way about. That's our obligation to the audience, and we have a story that we think is that. Am I gonna tell you what that is? I can't, man. But, I feel bad about it. The story we have is a great reason to make another, is all I can say to you.

Are you filming in Hawaii again, or somewhere else?

TOLMACH: We're scouting as we speak.

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