In Academy Award-winning director Alejandro González Iñárritu’s latest film Bardo, False Chronicle of a Handful of Truths, the filmmaker takes a deeply personal dive into the subconsciousness of the acclaimed, and fictional, documentarian Silverio Gacho. With a narrative inspired by his own experiences, Iñárritu paints bold imagery and surreal sequences through what he describes as very controlled camera work, lighting, and design. Though Bardo is uniquely different from his previous works, like Birdman and The Revenant, the heart and passion that have earned the director his accolades are very much present in this dreamy picture that chronicles Silverio’s detachment from his home and self-identity.

During his interview with Collider’s Steve Weintraub, Iñárritu discusses when he first realized he loves the challenge of making great films, filming with over 800 extras during a pandemic, and the concrete framework the director used when piecing Bardo together. He also shares one of the most difficult scenes to pull off in The Revenant, his use of music to maintain the suspension of reality, and where the idea for his trippy opening scene originated. You can read the full interview below, or watch the video above.

COLLIDER: If someone has actually never seen any of your work before, what is the first thing you'd like them watching and why?

ALEJANDRO GONZÁLEZ IÑÁRRITU: I will say this film, Bardo. I think it's something that, in a way, I feel contains a lot of the things that I have learned, and that I have accumulated some experience that I'm very happy about this film.

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Image via Netflix

You obviously have many people that want to work with you. However, maybe there's a project you haven't been able to get made. If you could get the financing to make anything you want, what would you make and why?

IÑÁRRITU: I don't have anything in mind. I had a project that I was developing a little earlier, but suddenly I was attracted much more by this one that was personal, and it got much more power, traction, in me. And that was for a reason. I think, besides that project that I was developing - I was excited about it, but in the moment that it was deviated, I started feeling more toward this one. That is when I knew that it was not enough traction, and that's it. I don't have anything that I will say I will die now to do it, no. I think it will come, hopefully, probably, but nothing now that I have in my pocket.

Which of your previous films, and it might be this one, changed the most in the editing room in ways that you did not expect?

IÑÁRRITU: I will say a combination between Amores Perros and Babel. I think those were the films that, in a way, I really went into, and they were changing depending on how I put the pieces. So they were a little bit more liquid and more flexible in that sense. I think those were the films that were a little bit more edited and changeable in a way.

Which of your films actually ended up with the most deleted scenes that are just still sitting in a vault somewhere?

IÑÁRRITU: I think this one.

Really?

IÑÁRRITU: Yeah. There’s many scenes that I love that I shot, and that didn't make it. Even the original version, didn't make it, but I really love it. I'm even considering, maybe, to bring them at some point because there are some of them that are really worth it. Not in the film, but to do something with them.

Well, that's something that I'm so curious about. I've asked this of so many filmmakers. One of the advantages of Netflix, and streaming, is you're not beholden to a certain rule book. There's so many abilities to release things as extras and obviously, I want to see it. I want to what you've cut out. Would you consider releasing these as deleted scenes? Or would you consider doing an extended cut? Or does any of that interest you?

IÑÁRRITU: I don't know yet. I don't know yet how to do it, because I think you have to give it a context and some purpose. You know what I mean? I think it's not something that you can leave slices, and that's it. But I'm interested, because there's a couple of things, some things, that I think is worth it thematically, substantially, and visually that were very interesting things that I will need to think about how to really present it, and to give a proper context to that. But yeah, I would love to find that reason.

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Image via Netflix

In Bardo, in many of your other films, you have some incredible shots, things that make my jaw just hit the ground. I'm curious of your resume, which shot or sequence ended up being the real backbreaker, the one that you're like, "F this"?

IÑÁRRITU: I will say that one of the most exciting moments, it was in Revenant, when we were shooting the battle, and the trappers are going toward the boat. It was a huge, huge camera movement with a huge crane, and choreography, and special effects, and water cold. The camera moves with the blocking of every actor, and hundreds of extras, and horses, and fire. It was kind of crazy. So after several days of rehearsing, and finding out the way to solve it and approach it properly, narratively, dramatically with the tension and with the rhythm that it needed, and find a technical way to do it.

We were just going through the end of the day, and we had such a little amount of light, and the things were not working because something happened all the time. The camera has to start running with some guys, panning to the left, horses coming this way, then the camera panning to the left. There's a Schwartz, and that, and rifles, and then completely 180 degrees, then going there. Then going to the water, then taking out from the water, then keep working with the water. And then they climb into the boat, and then pan.

It was a crazy ambitious kind of thing, but after, it was just the last take that literally there was no exposition, and then we got it. One. I can remember the excitement of the whole crew and the whole act. It was a huge celebration. That's one of the moments that I remember that it was like, "Okay, I like this. I like the challenge to solve things like that." It was a very powerful emotion. There was a reason, not only like the technique, but it was really adrenaline going on. And that's what I want to show.

In Bardo, you have that amazing sequence in the California Dancing Club, I believe it's called, where it's a 7-minute shot that, as I was watching it, my jaw was on the ground because of how many extras were in there, all the choreography. When you present to your crew what you are planning on accomplishing in a moment like that, does anyone start crying?

IÑÁRRITU: No, but they should because it was very difficult, that one, because the challenge was that this place was with no AC in the middle of the pandemic. Everybody is sweating, smoking. The extras have the masks, and every take they have to take off the masks. Some takes some of them obviously forgot to take off the mask, so then we have to cut and everybody is coughing. We thought that we would die. It was the amount of tests for 800 people every day. Dressing them, and then making sure that none of them look to the camera, the choreography, and then to solve the camera things. Then, obviously, the timing of Ximena [Lamadrid] clapping. The music I edited before I wrote it from the script, so the music was absolutely alive. So we have to hit the marks on every single level.

It took us a couple of days of really hard rehearsal to find the rhythm. I think every art should aspire to music. I think music is God, and rhythm. So in a way, I think I enjoyed that very much, but it was painful to do it.

Actually, I want to ask you a specific question. I love the use of “Let's Dance” by David Bowie, but not just “Let's Dance” by David Bowie, the acapella version where you just hear his voice, and it's just a tremendous sequence. Can you talk about why you wanted that version of “Let's Dance” and having David Bowie's voice really carry that?

IÑÁRRITU: I wanted this moment, a sequence of joy with family, with friends, with Mexican Salsa and Cumbia, and the celebration of the Narcos speech, and all those things that make Mexico Mexico. I wanted this to be a very, very sweaty, electric vibe of my country, and the enjoyment of all these characters for a moment. At some point, I thought that, obviously, would be beautiful, that this is a walk in the consciousness of a character. All the film is that. It's a lucid dream, and I want, suddenly, as in the dreams, always something is soft, something feels real. I wanted to get into that lucid dream again, a liquid kind of sensation, to get inside him and how he was feeling about it, and to isolate him, but still be surrounded by a shared loneliness, but enjoying the depth.

I used that three times. I use it here, I use it with Peter Gabriel and the Genesis song in the top shot of the bed, and I use it with José José on the beach, too. I think it was a way for me to understand that this guy can talk without moving his lips, or can be mumbling songs inside him without anybody noticing. It was a way to be inside himself, in my point of view.

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Image via Netflix

I really enjoyed the opening shot of the film. I'm always curious how a director, a writer-director, picks how he wants a film to open. How did you decide on what's behind you as the opening?

IÑÁRRITU: It was the first image that came to my mind, to be honest. It was something that I recurrently dream, and it's a dream that is pleasant, but at the same time, it's always feeling dangerous because I always feel that I'm flying very close to the ground, and that any false movement can really hit the ground. It's like walking the line with some pleasant feeling. It's a recurrent kind of thing. Sometimes it disappears for years, and then suddenly comes and it's every day, or every week that I feel the same. I have found people that have the same. I don't know if you have dreamed about that? Then I said, "Okay, it's going to be the shadow projected," and I was very excited about it. Then, I said, "Okay, how are we going to do this?" Then it took me almost a year to solve how to do that because I didn't know how to do it, how to solve it technically.

The problem with this film is that all of the fabric of this film is made of elusive emotions, and feelings, and dreams and things, but those things are immaterial, there is no recipe. Then to turn them into an idea, and then to write them, and convert a sequence, and give a reason, and then execute them and flesh them out is super difficult. Anyway, it's funny because now you see how it's a shadow flying, but to make that was a real kind of equation, how to technically do that. Anyway, it was fascinating, but it came to me very early in the script.

I'm curious about the editing process because that's ultimately the final rewrite, and it's where every film comes together. Can you talk about how the film possibly changed the structure as you were in the editing room because there are many ways of playing this?

IÑÁRRITU: Yeah, funny enough, it ended up very, very faithful - not perfectly - but faithful to the original script, or something to the idea of the script. It was built in 32 sequences. Every sequence, in a way, is blended again with the other one, with no story. And there's no structure. It's only an atmosphere, and the only kind of spine, or middle, or center is emotional. The film is actually a flexible film in that sense. I found that in the script, it took me four years to put that together, so it was not so different from the script. I extracted some things that, as I told you, didn't make it, but they were, in a way, attending the chronological order that they were intended.

Can I ask you, how many deleted scenes did you end up with? We're talking 30 minutes or more?

IÑÁRRITU: Yeah, like 30 minutes probably. Yeah.

Now that I've seen the entire film, I don't want to get into spoilers, but the ending opens the door to watching the film again and presenting you with new information that allows you to see things. I'm curious if you ever thought about presenting some of the information at the end earlier in the film to change your perspective on what you were watching. Or was it always designed with that in mind?

IÑÁRRITU: No, it was always designed in mind. What you said, I think, is if there's a structure of this film, it's circular, it basically ends when it starts.

There's a famous novel of Julio Cortázar, a genius Argentinian writer, that is called Rayuela. Rayuela is very famous because it's a novel that you can start in the middle, in the beginning, in the end, and no matter where you go in, it's a circular thing and you will understand everything. In a way, I think that this film is a little bit like Rayuela. It's made in circles. There's no Act One, Act Two, Act Three, plot point - no. That doesn't exist. It's just a dream, and you can go in in the moment that you want. If you put together the beginning and the end, it will start again is what I feel.

I'm curious, who do you trust for honest feedback? When you showed them this film, was any feedback that you got, did you sort all of a sudden say, "Oh, that makes a lot of sense. I need to adjust this"?

IÑÁRRITU: Yeah. I think normally I show the film to close friends that I respect, that I trust, that I have confidence in. Obviously, the two that you know is Guillermo del Torro and Alfonso Cuarón. I think it's great to have that. You know what I mean? I think there are points of view that sometimes we do not agree on, but sometimes they can open their interesting exercise for me to apply and that's always super beneficial. We’ve done that from the beginning of our careers. Yeah, I think they were very supportive. I have other friends that I was very, very, very happy that they gave me their thoughts.

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Image via Netflix

I loved seeing the movie last night in IMAX, and your choice of the large-format 65mm for how you shot it. Can you talk about why you wanted to shoot it on that format?

IÑÁRRITU: It's especially because of that. The canvas, and the paintings that I wanted, with this being a dream, and big events, and intimate events - I think I wanted this to feel cinematic, sensorial, immersive, to get into the dream of some person. In virtual reality, Carne y Arena, I put the people in that. I don't know, it was very interesting in this sensorial, immersive situation that you can really enjoy cinema with a big format, with a sound design that took us one year to really embrace people in this trip. I think the big format is made for that. We are going to have a 70mm in LA and New York, we're going to have a 35 print, too. I think the 70mm, I'm going to revise it now in one hour. I'm going to PhotoCam to revise it so we are finishing. Yeah, I love the big format.

When you say revise it, do you mean watch it for color-correction and stuff?

IÑÁRRITU: Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

New York and LA, I'm just trying to think about seeing it in 70mm now.

IÑÁRRITU: Yeah, yeah. No, I think you will enjoy it if we hit the right spot. It has been challenging. The 35 looks amazing, it's pristine and powerful. The 70, I think if we hit the right thing, I think it will be beautiful too.

Well, the thing that I've also found is that when someone shoots in 65 the way you did, and then it gets shrunk down to 35, it still looks incredible. It looks amazing actually because of the way you shot it originally.

IÑÁRRITU: Exactly. Yeah, that's exactly right. The information that is now in these cameras is just crazy.

That leads me to my next thing. I'm almost out of time, but shooting with 65 like this - I love the IMAX format - is shooting in IMAX, or this kind of format, something that you want to do in the future for whatever you choose to do next? Is that format something that you fell in love with?

IÑÁRRITU: Yeah, I think 65 for me. I think depending on the film, I think every film needs, and demands, its own grammatical language and its own texture, and its own thing. You can see things in 16-millimeters with old lenses, and glasses, and it's super powerful and beautiful, and it's a little hazy. What I'm saying is not everything has to be crispy and pristine. I think that every film demands. I think it depends on the film, I think, that I choose what is the right patina for each of them.

You obviously plan your shots, and what you want to accomplish before you get on set, very clearly. I'm curious, how much ends up being spontaneous on set when you are in the moment, and how much is it very regimented based on what you've previously planned?

IÑÁRRITU: I think in this film everything was absolutely preplanned, rehearsed, controlled, and incredibly specific, every step, every movement, camera, actors. I did storyboards for each of them. I think it is the more precise film I have done in my life. And the reason is that when you are trying to get that lucid dream sensation where something is off, and that you are grounded in reality, you cannot capture that, you cannot improvise that, you don't achieve that by chance. You have to design it in every sense, with the design of the light direction, the camera movement. The performance of the actor has to be, not reacting, but observing all the time. The lights are moving even when nobody perceives it. I did a lot of things for you to feel something is off, and that has to be perfectly planned and designed because if not, it will be too real. All of the film is navigating this reality and imagination all the time, so you have to design that, you have to build it.

Bardo will be in theaters for a limited release on November 18, and will be available to stream on Netflix on December 16.