In the Disney•Pixar short Bao, from director Domee Shi and producer Becky Neiman-Cobb, what started off as a dumpling springs to life as a little dumpling boy, soothing the empty nest syndrome that an aging Chinese mom is suffering from. Mom is happy to welcome Dumpling into her life, but when he starts to grow up fast, Mom realizes that Dumpling will not stay so cute and small forever.
At the press day for Incredibles 2, which the short will run with in theaters, Collider got the opportunity to sit down and chat with director Domee Shi and producer Becky Neiman-Cobb about paying tribute to the Chinese immigrant community in Canada, telling a story that will make audiences laugh and cry in less than 10 minutes, how they ended up working together on Bao, keeping each other motivated during the production, all of the thought that went into how the dumpling would look, all of the dumplings they ate for research, and where they’d like their careers to go next.
Collider: I loved Bao, and one of the things that I love about this short, and all Pixar shorts, is how in just a few minutes and with no dialogue, you can make an audience full of people laugh and cry. Is there a ratio for how many laughs to how many tears you have to have, in one of these shorts?
BECKY NEIMAN-COBB: We didn’t even know, at the start, that it would have the reaction that it’s had.
DOMEE SHI: I always knew that I wanted that ending, though. Because it’s a little bit disturbing and maybe a little bit shocking, I was like, “Well, okay, I’m gonna take the audience along for a really fun ride, to make up for the super surprising ending.”
NEIMAN-COBB: We work on this thing, and you tell a joke, but then you have to wait however many years before you can hear if people laugh. The crew all loved it and were all were behind it, and we knew it was different and emotional. It touched all of us, but it’s been really fun to see the audience reactions. There’s a roller coaster of emotion within one second. It’s really been fun for us to experience this.
You guys have both been at Pixar for a little bit, but this is your first time doing these jobs, and doing them together. How did you end up paired together?
NEIMAN-COBB: Technically, we worked together on Inside Out. Domee was a storyboard artist, and I was managing the editorial department. We hadn’t worked in a partnership way, but we knew each other. We like talking about this connection that we have, through the character of Sadness. I was the scratch voice, or temporary voice, for that character, as we were developing it, and Domee had a huge influence on how she looked and acted. She did a ton of her sequences. So, through Sadness, we had this bond. Domee worked on this short for quite awhile on her own, before it was greenlit. It wasn’t until then that I was asked to join, as a producer. So, Domee started on this in 2014, and I was added in 2016.
SHI: It was really fun! Production on shorts is more uneven than feature films. We had to do a lot of stopping and starting, and most of us worked full-time on our other jobs. I was full-time, as a story artist on Toy Story 4, for a lot of it, and Becky was also full-time on other projects, as well. We didn’t start working on this short, full-time, until about a year and a half ago.
NEIMAN-COBB: The actual production took about a year and a half, but there were still times, even within that, where we would have to pause, if animators were needed on something else. At the time, it was Coco. We would pause and wait until everyone was done with that. The shorts program is the scrappy, indie wing of Pixar. We’re just happy to be there.
SHI: Yeah, totally!
NEIMAN-COBB: At the start, we don’t even know what film we’re gonna be attached to, or even if we’re gonna be attached to anything, at all. So, this whole thing has been really exciting, for all of us.
SHI: Totally!
Were there things that you guys did to keep each other motivated, during that whole time where you had to keep stopping and starting and waiting to finish this? Did you have to be each other’s cheerleaders?
SHI: I think so. It’s tricky because it took so long. You just have to get yourself motivated and excited, every single day. Because most of us had other projects, as well, for me, it was almost good to have two things going on, at once. If I got too mentally fatigued from one job, I could jump onto this job, then go back and forth. At least, I felt like my mind was feeling refreshed because it was switching between Toy Story and Bao, and toys and dumplings. It was just good for my brain.
NEIMAN-COBB: The thing is, there was a ton of enthusiasm, at the studio, for this short. We would have people coming up to us, wanting to work on it. Once we put our crew together, everyone was so excited to be able to be working on it, and that, alone, kept us invested and inspired. Everyone was so happy to be a part of this because we all knew it was really special.
SHI: I also that that, if I talked about it more and more people knew about it, it would keep it alive in the studio, so I was always trying to show people stuff. I was like, “Look at this animation test that so and so did,” and they’d be like, “Oh, cool!” It’s almost like you have to be your own hype man and create this interest, so that it keeps the short alive at the studio.
How cool is it for you, after spending so many years on the short, to get to have this very personal tribute to family and culture and food, and be the first female director of a short?
SHI: It’s so insane! Sometimes I have to just pinch myself. It’s just been such an amazing, incredible ride. It didn’t all sink in, until after we finished the short and we started showing it to people. Then, it all hit me and I was like, “Whoa, this is done, and it’s real and alive, and people are gonna see it.” It’s been crazy, but really, really fun.
And now, you’ve got character toys that you can play with.
SHI: That was the dream! I wanted to make the short, so I could play with a little plushy Bao, and just make a bed of it and sleep in it.
How much thought went into how the character would look, and also what filling would go into the dumpling?
SHI: We worked really closely with our production designer, Rona Liu. I brought her on, pretty early on, ‘cause we both have a lot of similar interests and artistic tastes. We wanted to make sure that everything in this world looked as cute and edible as possible, especially the dumpling. We wanted him to look really squishy and cute, and have that glossy sheen on his skin, so you could just eat him up in every shot, and I think the final results were super successful. We took tons of photos of steamed dumplings and boiled dumplings. We did lots of research.
NEIMAN-COBB: Many dumplings were harmed, in the making of this short.
SHI: Yeah, many, many dumplings were harmed.
NEIMAN-COBB: And we would also look at, as reference, little miniature sets. When things are designed to be really small, you have to figure out the essence of the design, and what to keep and what to lose. And so, a lot of our sets were designed with that philosophy.
SHI: Everything in the world has this rounding cuteness to it.
NEIMAN-COBB: Yeah, a lot of Domee’s direction was, “It needs to be a little bit cuter,” which you don’t hear, all that often, in direction.
Did you need to take a break from eating or seeing dumplings ever again, after spending so much time with them?
SHI: I had a little bit of dumpling fatigue, by the end. But as soon as I smell them or see them, I’ll eat them.
NEIMAN-COBB: Oh, totally!
SHI: They’re still very tasty!
NEIMAN-COBB: I feel like there was a night were I sat up with heartburn and was like, “Okay, it’s gone too far!”
Do you guys have a goal of doing these jobs in bigger, full-length features, as well? Was this always the path you were looking to take?
SHI: I’ve always just wanted to continue drawing and telling stories, in whatever format I would have the opportunity to work in. I never knew, or could anticipate, that I would become a short film director. I always had the itch to draw comics, when I was little, and then in school, I worked on short films and told stories. As a storyboard artist, you’re working really closely with the directors and the writers, and you’re coming up with ideas. I’ve always loved that part, just creating ideas and creating new stories to tell. I just followed that passion, and this is where I ended up. I hope I can continue doing it.
NEIMAN-COBB: For me, I love that I’m able to help support the creative process, and help give artists and crew the opportunity to shine. That’s my favorite part. That’s what fuels me. I just feel so lucky that that’s what I get to do, every day. I started Pixar on a short, as a production assistant, so it’s been really exciting to then go work on features, and then come back, as the producer of Bao. That’s been so sweet. It’s such a cool program. It’s a chance for us to try these new leadership roles, and to try new stories and new technology, take risks, and try out new leadership. It’s our legacy, starting from Luxo Jr., so it’s a really cool thing.
Bao will be in theaters with Incredibles 2, starting on June 15th.
