In Season 2 of the HBO drama series His Dark Materials, a new world and higher stakes has sent Lyra (Dafne Keen) into the unknown and on a dangerous path. Once in this mysterious abandoned city and alongside her new friend Will (Amir Wilson), Lyra tries to stay far enough out of the reach of Mrs. Coulter (Ruth Wilson) to fulfill her destiny.
During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, actress Dafne Keen talked about her three-year journey of auditioning for this role, the responsibility of playing a character that people can look up to, what made her nervous about playing such a popular character from literature, what it’s like to have her mom as her acting coach, handling intense emotional scenes, Lyra’s relationship with her daemon, her hopes for Season 3, and what would most surprise people about what it takes to make this series. She also talked about her experience on Logan, and how she’d really like to do a comedy.
Collider: You had a three-year journey of auditioning and waiting and auditioning some more, before you were ever cast. What went through your head, during that time? Were you convinced that you’d never get to play the role, or were you determined to get this role?
DAFNE KEEN: It was a very, very long time. I’m quite an insecure person. I’m a bit of a pessimist, so I thought that I wasn’t going to get it, but that made me want to fight for it. I studied my auditions really, really well and I worked on my scenes. Being negative helped me a lot in that. In that time, I just really, really wanted the part and really worked for it.
There are a couple of things that come with taking on a role like this. First, you’re a young actress leading a TV series, which really forces you to step up into a very adult position. And then, you’re also this young female lead character, which means that the character is someone that young girls are going to look to when they watch the show. What is that like, and what does that mean to you?
KEEN: I think it’s very necessary because I’m a young girl that lives in this world and there are very few TV shows that have a character like this. I’m really honored to be leading in that. Obviously, I feel like I’m not leading because filming is teamwork and everyone is equally important. It’s really crazy to basically be one of the main faces of this show and to be playing a character that’s more realistic and really looks like young girls. She’s more like what girls should be looking up to, instead of being admired for how pretty they look or how they’re told to be. There’s a generation of girls that can watch this and decide that they can be a woman by being a woman, and not the object for some man or just some background person. There’s a really horrible concept that I hate, which is the great woman behind the great man. This is just a young girl who’s experiencing growing up. When I see child actors on screen, I really love it. There’s not very much content for children growing up. There are TV shows where men are playing 15-year-old boys. With this, you can finally get someone who’s actually the age of the character, and adults can watch it too.
It’s easy to see what would be exciting about playing a character like this, but were there things that made you most nervous about playing her? Were there specific challenges that you were concerned about, in taking on this role?
KEEN: Yeah, definitely. Lyra is a really popular character in literature. I was really, really nervous to try bringing to life this role model for so many people who read the book. So, I was really nervous about that, in general, and about being as true as possible to Philip Pullman’s Lyra and not my own Lyra, which might not work. I tried to stay as true to this version as possible and started to figure out what would work now, instead of when the book was written.
When you are nervous, how do you handle that? When it comes time to play the character, how do you get over the nerves?
KEEN: I’m not gonna tell you not to be nervous, but at the end of the day, how you look on camera doesn’t matter. As an actor, you shouldn’t think about you, as a person. You should think about being Lyra. In my case, I just wanted to do the best I can and just be Lyra, and see if it works out. If not, I tried my best.
This is dense, challenging, complicated, complex material. What was the way into the story for you? What was it that helped you in understanding this world, as it was all being established around you?
KEEN: For me, it was this one line that Ma Costa has in the book, which really helped me. Lyra’s basically trying to become one of the gyptians, and she says, “I wanna be a gyptian.” and she says, “You can’t. Gyptians are water signs and you’re not water, Lyra. You’re fire.” That really helped me. She’s got that calmness, that serenity and that fire in her, and she can really get through to her. And working with Ruth [Wilson] really helped me. Just getting to know Lyra’s relationships with the other characters really, really helped, and seeing the sets and the puppets. That made it all much easier.
You’ve talked about how you grew up in a family of actors and that your mother is your acting coach. What is that like? What is your process of working with her, when you do get coached on material?
KEEN: Lots of people ask me, “Do you get along with your mom?” I love my mom. I get asked a lot about being teenager working with my mom because we all know that’s a rebellious phase where everyone says they hate their parents, but I just get on with her. We work together really well. I’ve worked with her since I was eight. When she has to go film her own stuff and I’m left alone on set, I can do it, but it’s weird. I’m really used to it. What we usually do is, the day before we prepare the scene, rehearse it and think about it. And then, the next day, she comes to set and she watches from the monitor, and she gives me notes and stuff.
To have somebody work with you on the material who knows you so well, is such an interesting way to approach the work.
KEEN: Yeah, she knows me best, so she knows when I’m acting, rather than living as the character. You have to learn how to give notes, so that they reach people. I’ve had lots of different methods. I’ve had many different directors give me notes, but sometimes they don’t reach you that well. My mom really knows how to get to me and to get out of me what the screen needs, what the director needs, and what everyone needs.
What’s it like for you to play very emotional moments? Do you have tricks to get yourself to that place where you can access those emotions, or does it come very easy for you?
KEEN: I’m quite good at emotional scenes. I’m not a very emotional person. I’m very emotional, but I don’t cry a lot, in real life. For some reason, when I’m acting, it’s much easier for me to do crying scenes. As an actor, you try to just focus on being the character. My main trick, if I’m doing an intense scenes and it’s hard for me to get where I need to get to, I get distracted very, very easily, so I go in a corner and sit in silence and think about the situation, and then I get into character. If I can’t, then I just play really sad music to get into that state, instead of distracting myself with other people.
The first season of any show, you’re having to figure out who your character is and where they fit in the world, and what the relationships are. What was the biggest relief in finishing the journey of Season 1 and what was the most exciting part of seeing how the fans reacted to it?
KEEN: I really loved filming Roger’s death. It was really fun. Lewin [Lloyd] is one of my best friends in real life and it was such an emotionally demanding scene. I love that. I love any physical scenes, but I also love emotional scenes. That was incredible. I just had a great time filming it. And then, I loved the fans' reactions to Ruth and my work together. That was an absolute honor because Ruth is so incredible.
What was it like to jump into filming Season 2, before the first season had even aired? Do you feel like that helped you to be able to return to the character very quickly?
KEEN: It was really weird for us because we weren’t allowed to say we were filming, but everyone knew we were filming. We had to keep all of these little secrets for what we had added from Season 1 into Season 2, like Amir [Wilson]. We weren’t allowed to say that he was in Season 1, so we had to sneak him in at red carpets. It was actually quite fun because we had out little secret on set that no one knew about. And no one knew about Ariyon [Bakare] either. They knew Ariyon was in Season 1 because he’s in the book, but there’s so much that he did that was actually in book two. That’s actually really fun, as an actor. When you’re adapting a book into a TV series, you know that there will be some things that just don’t work in TV like they do in the book. When we were filming, we knew things that other people didn’t know, which is really, really fun. It was weird to go from Season 1, straight into Season 2. It was a long time, but at the same time, it was like no time has passed, at all. The weirdest thing was just being there one minute, and then six months later, coming back. All of the people were still there, but the cast was different and the sets were different. That was really weird. It’s really weird, getting to have many, many people on set, see you grow up.
How do you feel this season and the book that it’s based on, The Subtle Knife, is most different from the first season? How would you describe the mood and tone for this season, especially as it pertains to your character?
KEEN: It was really, really fun to film. It was incredible. It’s much darker. The relationships with everyone are much more realistic and they’re so complex. Lyra and Mrs. Coulter have a deep love for each other because they’re mother and daughter, but at the same time, Lyra feels like it’s not okay to love her mother. It’s so amazing to finally see Lyra having a healthy relationship with someone. My favorite thing about Season 2 is that it’s much more realistic, even though it’s fantasy. You relate to it much more.
What did you enjoy about the relationship between Lyra and Will, and how did that compare to the relationship you have with Amir Wilson?
KEEN: There were some scenes where you weren’t allowed to have fun because it was really intense, but we just mostly have fun with it. Both of us are quite different to our character, I’d say. Our relationship out of work is quite similar to our characters because we get on as well as Lyra and Will. It was really cool that we got to put a bit of our own relationship into the show, with all of their jokes and the way they relate to each other. We got to know each other throughout the shoot and we understand each other quite well, which is really good for filming. If you understand someone on an emotional level, when you’re an actor, it’s just much easier acting with them.
One of the things that makes this show different and special is that you get to have a relationship with a daemon. I would imagine, as an actor, you have existential conversations about your character’s soul, but you actually get to have a relationship with that, in this show. What is it like to explore that?
KEEN: It’s really interesting. It’s pretty helpful, as an actor, because lots of times, you have to figure out for yourself what the character is thinking, as opposed to what they’re saying. Many times people are thinking something that they’re not saying. When you have a daemon, you constantly know what the person is thinking, which is a very big help. It just takes that much more research out of your own process. It was really interesting, getting to know the difference between Lyra and Pan, in that way. In Season 1, Lyra was much more spontaneous and much more the crazy one, and Pan was more rational. And then, in Season 2, they changed and Pan becomes the emotional one while Lyra has become rational. It’s really cool to see the difference in how growing up changes you and your way of thinking.
One of the themes of this show is that people are afraid of things that they don’t understand. Do you feel like that’s something that is a very relatable sentiment in the world, in general, and not just in this fantasy world?
KEEN: Yeah, 100%. Most human beings are afraid of what they don’t know. We’re seeing this right now with all of these problems that we’re having with all of these people fighting against Black Lives Matter because they don’t know what it’s like. I don’t think you can judge something unless you fully understand it. When we don’t know something, we tend to be afraid of it. We should try to discover what it means, instead of hiding or attacking it.
Are you already thinking ahead then to what Season 3 could be and what you could get to explore?
KEEN: If Season 3 happens, I’m really, really looking forward to it. I’ve read the book a few times already, just to get myself familiar with it. Book three is my favorite book, out of all of them, so I really wish we can do it. I’m keeping my fingers crossed. I’m trying not to think about it because I think a lot and I’m really, really looking forward to getting back. People on set have become my second family because I’ve known them for a few years now. They’ve seen me grow up, and I really miss them. I can’t wait to go back. People are like, “I can’t wait for holiday,” but I can’t wait to get back to filming.
What have you learned about acting, just from being a part of this show and working with this cast and crew?
KEEN: I’ve learned a million things. When you’re acting, my reason for doing it has changed, as I’ve gotten older. When I was little, I thought it was all about it being this thing that you just know how to do. But as I’ve gotten older, I’ve internalized the things that I’ve learned. I can’t tell you exactly what I’ve learned, but I think I’ve gotten much better from working with people like Ruth Wilson, who is absolutely amazing and an inspiration and one of the best actors I’ve ever worked with. Everyone on set, I don’t think there’s a single person who hasn’t taught me something. I try to learn as much as I can, and you can learn so much by watching other people act and do their jobs, like setting up the camera and the lights, or getting notes.
We first became familiar with you in America through your work in Logan, which seems like it would have been a challenging film to do. What was that experience like for you? Were you were nervous, or was that something that you felt very ready for?
KEEN: It was one of the best sets that I’ve ever been on. Hugh [Jackman] is one of my favorite people, ever. They really made me feel like I was at home. I was really nervous at the audition, which is normal, but I was more nervous than normal, doing adult material. I was older, so I was more aware of what was happening. Hugh helped take the pressure off. James Mangold, the director, was absolutely amazing and taught me so much. Everybody was just so chill on that set, and so relaxed, so calm, and so good with me. I really felt at home. During the audition, I felt pressure, but not during filming. Everybody made me feel really comfortable.
Outside of the possibility of continuing with this series, have you thought about what you’d like to do next in your career? Are there types of projects that you’d like to do or genres that you’d like to work in?
KEEN: I don’t know. I just really miss filming, in general, so I’d like to do anything that’s filming at the moment. I have thought about it and I would really like to do comedy. I did a bit of comedy in Ana, but I’d like to do full-on comedy. I’ve done action and I’ve done adventure. I just want to do as much as possible, so I can really get to experience it and decide what I like best.
His Dark Materials is a fantasy series where you’re surrounded by things that either don’t exist in our world or are enhanced, in some way. What do you think would most surprise people about what it takes to make this show?
KEEN: Oh, the amount of time, definitely. The amount of time and care from people. There are so many, many little jobs. I’ve been a few sets through my life because my parents have been actors, but this is the biggest set I’ve been on because the scale is so massive. There’s so much detail going in. There’s a whole department called creature effects, which is literally putting in the assets for the CG animals. And then, there are all of the people working on the background effects. There are all of these props, and then there are the special props. There are so many people in charge of things. There’s so much work being put in and the details is just crazy. These are probably the best sets I’ve seen. You walk in and you feel like you’re in a different world. It’s crazy. It’s absolutely mad how much they put into it.
His Dark Materials airs on Monday nights on HBO.