[Editor’s note: The following contains spoilers for the final season of Dear White People.]

From creator Justin Simien, Dear White People Vol. 4 is the final chapter in the lives of the Winchester students that have grabbed our attention, expanded our fascination, and challenged us with thought-provoking conversations throughout the run of the Netflix original series. Set against the backdrop of senior year as well as a post-pandemic future, the characters are reflecting on their lives in a very ‘90s-inspired musical way that takes viewers on an emotional journey that is satisfying, bittersweet and inspiring.

During this interview with Collider, which you can both watch and read, co-showrunners Simien and Jaclyn Moore talked about how the ideas for the final season evolved, their favorite musical numbers, their iconic reinvention of the *NSYNC song “Bye Bye Bye,” and leaving everything on the floor. Simien also talked about how letting go of the dream list of things he wanted to do led him to his upcoming projects, the Star Wars: Lando TV series and a Haunted Mansion movie inspired by the Disneyland ride, while Moore talked about having a hand in bringing back Queer as Folk.

Collider: I’m happy to say that I absolutely loved the last season of Dear White People and I was an absolute mess by the end of the final scene of the last episode. Justin, you knew this is going to be the last season, but when did you know that this was the story of how these characters would come to an end? Were you always like, “If we get to Season 4, we’re going to do a musical and we’re going to go to the future? When did that happen?

JUSTIN SIMIEN: Well, no. We never really got to plan the whole thing out. That’s the way it works with a Netflix show. You put it out, and then you find out if you come back, so there was never an opportunity to do a master plan. So, when we found out that it was gonna be the last season, to me, it was the first thought. It was like, “Well, this thing that we’ve always wanted to do in an episode, that feels like the peak version of Dear White People. It’s such a hyper reality. We have these really real issues, but we find a way in that is entertaining and exciting and different. That’s what a musical does. We should just make the whole season of musical.” That’s really as much as I knew, in that moment.

And then, the other part of me, the nerd part of me, thought about how my favorite finale of all time is the series finale of Star Trek: The Next Generation. It was actually one of the first things we played for the writers’ room. And in that season finale, we meet the characters in the future, the present, and the past. Why that was so powerful was that, for a show that was really episodic and they also didn’t have the ability to plan the whole thing at once, for their last episode and for our last season, it gives you a sense of the whole thing, up until this point, but it also takes it to a new place and leaves everything on the floor, which is what a musical is supposed to do. So, those are the ideas I came in with, plus a lot of emotional trauma, per usual. We nixed the ideas with the emotional trauma that Justin was feeling and came up with this season. That’s what the recipe has been each season, and this season was no different in that way.

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Image via Netflix

RELATED: 'Dear White People' Vol. 4 Trailer Reveals Why This Season Will Be Musical

They were all just amazing, but do each of you have favorite musical performance numbers in this?

JACLYN MOORE: I’m so glad that it connected. For me, my favorite musical number, I would say for sure but there are so many good ones, but I am really partial to Marque [Richardson]’s “Virtual Insanity” in Episode 5. I also think it’s one of the most beautifully shot, Justin.

SIMIEN: Oh, right, I did that.

MOORE: It’s the most beautifully shot and most beautifully edited. I love everything about that number so much. I just had Marque trained with the granddaughter of the Gregory brothers for six months to learn how to tap well enough to do that, which is incredible. So, yeah, I would say that’s probably my favorite, but with so many second places.

SIMIEN: Yes, it’s hard. There’s a lot of kids on this one that I love dearly. “Bye Bye Bye” was so refreshing. Sam Bailey, who both wrote and directed that episode, had this obsession with the song that was just so funny and specific to her. I’ll be honest with you, it didn’t even fully make sense to me at first. So many great things in the show began with me being like, “Y’all, I don’t know.” And then, I’d walked to my office and sit for awhile and be like, “Oh, my God, we have to do it.” So, Sam really got to see that all the way through. That song starts off as a symbol of how frankly white Sam White has become with her white boyfriend, but then to use it as a breakup song was just brilliant. And the way she filmed it was exciting. We didn’t just go for songs that we liked, but we also went for musical number types that we liked. And she really took on this surreal rock opera music as dialogue style, in a way that was so unexpected and fun.

MOORE: I just wanna shout out for that, and for all of them, Chris Bowers and his team. The orchestrations on these songs, especially the reinvention songs, like “Bye Bye Bye,” are incredible. The first time we heard this Rent/Pearl Jam sounding “Bye Bye Bye,” I was like, “What is this? I love it!”

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Image via Netflix

Justin, you’re moving on to some pretty big properties. Did you have a list of dream projects that included working in the Star Wars universe and telling a story inspired by a Disneyland theme park ride? How does that even happen? What does it feel like to be you right now?

SIMIEN: I’ll be honest, every day is a joy. Just kidding. What’s funny is that, at a certain point, I learned to let go of my list. If I was just sticking to my list, there’s a lot of things I wouldn’t have gotten to do, including the two things that you mentioned, both of which came as a surprise. They were one of many things that I was just working like hell to get. Anyone in this industry will tell you that you really have to try to make 45 pies to get a pie made. It was just a lot of work, and those are the things that happen versus the things that just totally fell apart or are still in progress. But I have to say, it’s really exciting. It also feels really good that everything I’ve been doing up to this point is exactly what I needed to do, to be ready for this stuff. It is hard in all of the same way. The challenges really are the same, they just apply at different scales and with different problems to solve. So, it feels good. I feel really comfortable. I’d be lying if I said it was easy or always fun.

MOORE: Making a musical during COVID definitely probably helped Justin and I prepare for different scales of challenge.

SIMIEN: Or calamity.

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Image via Netflix

Jaclyn, I love that you’re going to be a part of bringing back Queer as Folk. It was such a huge series and people are so excited about seeing it again. Why do you think it’s an important story to revisit?

MOORE: Oh, my goodness. I have so much love for the Showtime American version of Queer as Folk, but I am a diehard of the British version with Russell T. Davies, Aidan Gillen and Charlie Hunnam. That show was so punk rock and queer aggression, in this way that’s really refreshing and unapologetic. Stephen Dunn and I are definitely leaning more towards that tone. To be honest, every version of the show, to this point, is very white and very cis gay, and our version is not. It’s set in New Orleans. One of the leads is a trans woman. There are many people of color. I think we have one white person in the main cast, and it’s Ryan O’Connell, who’s disabled, and also beautiful and talented and funny. And we have Fin Argus. We have a couple of white people. It’s just really wonderful to get to tell queer stories.

Honestly, I truly wanna do for queer stories, what we’ve been doing on Dear White People for Black stories and queer stories, which is not create a show that is bearing the full burden of representation, but instead is creating a story that’s about queer people, in all of their messiness. In the same way that Coco is not every Black woman, Sam is not every Black woman, and Joelle is not every Black woman, instead we get to tell stories about three, four, or five different kinds of Black women. I feel like, in a weird way, playing that messiness ends up making the show more representative. To be honest, if a show is just made by a cis white dude, it just ends up being a very flat version of, “This is an acceptable Black person that won’t get me canceled. Nobody’s gonna be mad at me for this one.” It’s more fun to tell stories about us, when we get to go deep and be messy.

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Image via Netflix

Well, I love this show, I love this last season, I love everything you’ve managed to do with the show, and the fact that you made me actually like “Bye Bye Bye.” Justin, I am so thrilled that you are taking on my favorite ride at Disneyland. Thank you both, very much, for talking to me.

MOORE: Thank you so much.

SIMIEN: Thank you. I hope we get to talk about it soon.

Dear White People Vol. 4 is available to stream at Netflix.