Earlier this year, Netflix invited a group of journalists to the Brooklyn set of Marvel's Daredevil. The streaming network was deep into production on season 3, so we got a great sense of a story that seems to be a return to basics of sorts for the superhero series after the mystical, Hand-based madness of season 2 and The Defenders. In addition to getting a glimpse of Matt Murdock's new church basement hideout and Wilson Fisk's fresh-out-of-jail penthouse apartment, we got a chance to talk to stars Charlie CoxDeborah Ann WollElden Henson, and Joanne Whalley—who plays a new character, Sister Maggie—who all seemed genuinely jazzed about the grittier street-level direction new showrunner Erik Oleson is taking the series.

Below, Deborah Ann Woll discusses Karen Page's reaction to Matt Murdock's death, finding her place as an investigative journalist, why she's "fucking terrified" of Wilson Fisk's return to New York, why Marvel Netflix characters can no longer get coffee, and much more.

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Image via Netflix

Question: We heard that your new costuming makes you look “fucking fierce.”

DEBORAH ANN WOLL: Oh, yeah? Well, cool. I guess so? I thought the old look was really fucking fierce! I had this big thing that I think we start to take things that were traditionally feminine and label them as weak and I just didn’t want to be a party to that. I wanted it to feel like, “Hey, you can kick ass whether you’re in pants or a skirt.” My big thing was I wanted her to be tough and fierce and amazing no matter what she’s wearing.

What can you tell us about Karen this season, what’s going on with her?  

WOLL: Oh boy. Well, obviously, people will remember from The Defenders, as far as Foggy and I are concerned, Matt’s dead. So that’s kind of the first half of the season, dealing with the grief of that. Or do you believe it or not, the denial of it. And then do you keep fighting? Do you take on this fight that you think killed your friend and keep pushing on? Of course Karen will never let go. It’s really digging into the investigative journalist profession that I found myself in after last season. Wilson Fisk is back, which is very exciting. We have two new characters who are amazing. I think for me, the most fun has been that we really start to open up Karen’s past and a lot of the mysteries, the hints that have been dropped and we haven’t really filled those in. They’ve done an amazing job. I could not have asked for a better backstory. We had two different showrunners. So they had to take all the little hints and pieces that other people laid for them and then create something that they thought worked well. I was so thrilled with what they came up with.

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Image via Netflix

One of my favorite things ever from Karen is when she had to kill to survive in season one, is that something that’s going to be explored?

WOLL: Yeah, we’ll definitely learn a little bit more about why those were her instincts instead of something else, like what would have maybe been better, like just pointing a gun at him and calling the cops. We will get a sense of why shooting someone and covering it up is a bit more in her wheelhouse. We get a little bit of that. For me, through the different showrunners and all the different backstories that I heard, the main thread that I asked every single showrunner along the way was like, “Please don’t say I shot someone to save a busload of kids.” I want whatever happened to be something that was my fault. That this isn’t a story about misplaced guilt, this is a story about forgiveness and acceptance. That I did something really wrong and the rest of my life has been about atoning for it. Every story that I wrote about justice and truth and about opening your mind to different types like Frank Castle or Daredevil, it’s all about, “How do I make up for the awful things that I have done by being the most light and the most truthful and the most helpful I can be?” All of that drive in her is derived from something.

One of the chestnuts of being a journalist is “Don’t become the story,” but so much happens to Karen, do you think she’s ever worried?

WOLL: It’s almost like unwittingly I do it on purpose? Because I don’t want to let go, like, “You can’t do the story, it’s my story. I’m the only one who can…” That’s a bit of the weakness in it, is I can’t let it go. I don’t trust anyone else to do it right. Someone else might be biased or influenced by Fisk, it’s hard to know who to trust. So I think Karen’s weakness is she always wants to be in the middle of it. It’s kind of a cool strength weakness thing.

It’s kind of a control freak type of thing. Is that going to be delved into?

WOLL: Sure. As we look in the past and see the varying levels of control and out-of-controlness that Karen has experienced, I do buy that there’s a sense of, if I let go for a second, everything falls apart. So I better hold on to it and I better make sure this is done right because consequences can be awful. And they still are this season. A lot of what Karen deals with is, "I keep trying to do the right thing and yet people still die. They die on my watch and even sometimes because of me."

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Image via Netflix

What is Karen’s reaction to Wilson Fisk’s return to New York?

WOLL: Really fucking terrified. I killed his best friend. He doesn’t know it yet, that’s a good thing. It was funny, they kept saying, “Play the paranoia. We definitely want to work up the paranoia.” It’s not paranoia if it’s real! If he’s really going to kill you if he finds out, that’s not paranoia. That’s real fear. We definitely play with that. I finally got to do a scene with Vincent and it was fantastic. We were both so excited because he killed my Ben Urich and I killed his James Wesley so we have a mutual hate, I guess. Very Shakespearian mutual disgust for each other. But as actors, I think we both have tremendous respect for each other and the opportunity to get to play with him in this brilliantly flamboyant performance he gives, which is very much a contrast to Karen. So it was great to get both of those energies in a room and see how they play off each other. It was a great day. There was like a snowstorm out when we shot it. We felt very much like we were all stuck in this little soundstage, the winds were roaring outside, emotions were roaring inside. It was cool.

Karen went through a huge ordeal in The Punisher very recently, I’m wondering if her adventures in The Punisher have changed her going into Daredevil season 3?

WOLL: I think definitely, The Punisher world...all these worlds are violent worlds, but The Punisher’s world particularly so. One of my favorite themes from that Punisher season, and it’s particularly that one scene out by the water, where I have to ask him, “Where does it end? At what point is your revenge over? At what point do you feel better after killing hundreds of people.” And, of course, the answer is “never.” I like the idea that that’s a realization for me, too. An understanding that I have to find. I think, in a way, it made me more sensitive to the consequences of extreme action. Some of that theming gets picked up between Karen and Matt once we realize he’s still around.

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Image via Netflix

With everything Karen is going through how has her worldview changed, for you, as an actor? Coming from season one where she’s trying to find her own way until now, she’s seen the undead ninjas…

WOLL: I actually never did! I only heard about the undead ninjas. Charlie and I actually had a conversation about that. I felt bad because he was sort of off in that storyline on his own. I was like “If I was there I could help support that a little.” It just felt very out of our world, the grounded world of Daredevil. We had a conversation about it and were like, “Well it has to be that. In this room, right now, if I told you I’ve seen ghosts, I have. I know it sounds crazy but that’s what I’ve seen.” We agreed that the best way to take on mystical elements in a world that is grounded is to treat them as mystical. To treat them as exceptionally, insanely crazy. Unfortunately, I couldn’t play that with him as a support but I’m sure he did a tremendous job whatever he chose to do with it. But worldview? I don’t know, it’s like asking me what my worldview is.

I think Karen is a profoundly lonely person. She avoids honest connection. That’s part of why the relationship with Matt couldn’t work in season 2. Because neither of them were being honest with each other about who they really were. And we knew that was what we wanted to play, that there is clearly attraction here but these are not people who are ready to open up. I don’t know if it’s a worldview, but if the world was a really scary place that would never accept me, that didn’t want to see who I really was, then over the years, I think it’s about getting braver. And accepting that you have to be honest about who you are and maybe people will hate you for it.

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Image via Netflix

Does Karen trust anybody?

WOLL: Maybe Foggy.

Karen has done very well for herself post-Matt, do you think Karen is better off without Matt?

WOLL: It’s interesting. No, I don’t think I’m better off without him but I wouldn’t blame Karen for thinking that she might be. I think that he’s a damaged person. I think that if I weren’t so angry with him I could see that he needs help. That’s a little bit certainly the theming that we play with this year. Just because someone pushes you away, do you accept that and say, “Hey, I don’t have to take this shit.” Or do you try and see deeper and see that that’s coming out of hurt and try and understand your way through it. Honestly, either of those answers is appropriate. It depends on what you can take at any given moment. But like I said, I think Karen is alone. Matt and Foggy are two of the only people she’s had a long relationship with in many, many years. That’s worth fighting for even if it seems like he doesn’t want you to.

How did you learn about Karen’s past? Was it as you got the scripts or did you sit down with Erik?

WOLL: Before the season started, Erik was really nice and reached out to all of us and took us to lunch and we had a conversation about it. He told me what his plans were then and obviously, that was months ago and it has changed. Not drastically but significantly since then. So it was a different story. But I’ll take as much information as they’ll give me. Every other week we were emailing or talking on the phone like, “Hey, any update on that?” He was really about being transparent with me about the direction they were going. When I finally did get a script he was really open to notes and ideas that I had and things that help me tell the story. It was crazy collaborative. With the supervising writer, the writer who wrote the episode, the director, myself, and Erik and all these great other characters that we brought on, everyone was on point. And collaborative, and open to any idea. We could throw any idea out and say, “Well, maybe that won’t work, let’s try this one.” It was two of the most exciting and fun weeks of my career, working on that material.

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Image via Netflix

Is there any way that season 3 feels different from the other seasons, or any other Marvel Netflix show that you worked on?

WOLL: I think the big difference, and this is giving a lot of credit to Erik, he has decided to take on this idea of deep POV. So we have about six main characters and the idea is that every scene that you are in, you will be from the perspective of one character. That doesn’t mean that you won’t see them in the show, but that you start with them, you end with them, you notice whatever they notice, and it should give the season a very different feel. What’s fun is when two of those POV characters are in the same scene together. It’s been really interesting watching directors figure out like, “How do you shift that? Whose perspective is it?” Like in a scene with me and Fisk, it’s both of our POVs. When do we shift? When is it more interesting to be with Karen and when is it more interesting to be with him? That should really lend some really interesting new flavor to it. As well as we spend a lot of time with other characters other than Daredevil, which will lend a lot of depth to other characters and some mystery to Matt, which is always a good thing.

Karen has been a romantic interest, even in the comics, a lot of people have linked her automatically as a romantic interest. Matt is gone. How is Karen going to exist and grow outside of her comic book origins and how she was played in season 1 and 2?

WOLL: I might argue that I wasn’t a love interest in seasons 1 and 2. Look, romantic stories are incredibly fun to play. I love them. It’s like being 16 again. You get to have all those feelings. But all of the romance I’ve gotten to play, with any of the characters in the series, whether that’s Frank or Matt, they all come from a need. From a lonely person, a person who doubts whether she is deserving of love. So the relationship is deeper than just storytelling romance. With Matt gone, what will be good for Karen is she’ll need to find out whether she is worthy of love without having to find it through him. Can she discover that she’s valuable without having to find that in a romantic partner? That’s been a fun, interesting thing to play. My hope is that as they reconnect he’ll be able to help her see that better. That that will end up being how they connect with each other.

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Image via Netflix

What can you tell us about the relationship between Karen and Foggy this season? A lot of times when they bond, they bond because they’re anguished over Matt, but Matt’s gone.

WOLL: There’s still plenty of anguish. When you die you don’t stop being anguishing. That’s not a word, I’m gonna’ make that a word. Foggy is about consistency. If Matt and Karen—who are the most inconsistent, wild, reckless people who exist—didn’t have Foggy, nothing would get done. So I think that he provides security and safety and support for Karen. You asked if there’s anybody she could trust, I think he would be that one person. Now I think they have very different points of view. What Karen thinks is the right thing is to do is very different from what Foggy thinks is the right thing to do. But they always support one another. Foggy’s in a great relationship so it’s very fun to think of Karen being happy for him. That he’s living a normal life while she and Matt are incapable of that.

Are they getting coffee? Are they hanging out?

WOLL: You know what happened? We have now, on our Marvel shows, we are not allowed to just literally go for coffee as characters. Because that euphemism [from Luke Cage] is so strong. We literally had scenes where I’m like, “Alright, let’s go get some coffee.” And they’re like, “No, you can’t say that. People will read into it.” No, Karen and Foggy are not “getting coffee.” We drink a lot of whiskey and scotch.

As Karen, when she watches Frank and Matt, does she find similarities between the two of them and does she find any of those qualities in herself?

WOLL: Yes. I think part of the reason why I was such a staunch supporter of Frank in a roundabout way is because I understand that. I killed out of revenge. There were other ways to handle that situation and I did not choose that. I chose to take him down because I was mad. So yeah, if you label Frank Castle a monster, what does that make me? So in a way, I had to, for my own self-image, excuse him to a certain extent. Similarly, with Matt, and this has really been the fun thing to work on, everything that I blame him for, that I think he’s...I think he’s moody, and all over the place, and he’s more interested in taking down the bad guy than his friends, it’s all stuff that I do too. It’s a really nice kind of lack of awareness. Again, this season, all those things I was so mad about, the more separation I have from him, the more that I see I am also like him. Again, that’s where the forgiveness can start to come in.

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Image via Netflix

Your wardrobe is changing, which makes it easier for you to fight. Are you going to be getting in on any of the action?

WOLL: I’m very good at yelling. I will not be a zombie ninja. Karen does still have her gun. That’s an interesting thing and that’s definitely something that we want to be very careful that we don’t inadvertently make some sort of big commercial for guns and things like that. But I enjoy, especially as a female on this series, being able to have that conversation. I thought Punisher was starting to move into those conversations and we definitely have some ideas this year about the gun not representing safety. That Karen, and anyone, can be attacked whether she’s carrying or not. She can save herself whether she’s carrying or not. The gun is not the difference in that situation. In terms of fighting and wardrobe and things, again, I have to say I really enjoy that Karen is not a physical fighter. It suggests that you’re not strong if you don’t fight that way, and I love the fact that because I can’t punch you and win I have to be smarter than you. I have to be three steps ahead of you. So my strength and my super-power is involved in something else. It makes us a better team. If Matt’s the physical force and Foggy is the logical law-abiding piece, then I’m the intelligent, beat them at their own game type of thing. Then we all kind of cover each other’s tracks a little bit. Look, I think Karen is not afraid to get physical. Definitely, when we go back and look at her past we’ll see physical violence is not unknown to her. But I enjoy that it’s not my first instinct. My first instinct is to go, “I know what you’re thinking and I’m  going to get there a day before you and prepare everything so that you’re screwed when you get there.” That’s fun for me that it’s a different kind of strength.

I also feel like we want to keep it in character. You don’t want like, all of a sudden she knows martial arts. She is certainly scrappy, willing to fight. But she’s not putting on a suit. If you’re coming at me, sure, I’ll throw a punch or I’m going to duck or I’ll hit you with something. But it’s much more improvised...I was talking with our assistant stunt director who was up shooting with us some interesting stuff for Karen’s backstory. He said it’s really interesting because they do so much trained, exciting acrobatic fights on this that they don’t do a lot of basic domestic violence. Really scary, really realistic fighting. He said it’s really interesting to go back and see that and how real and scary that can be. So if Karen lives in a violent world, it’s that world. It’s the world of, “I can’t throw a punch and knock you out, so that’s not my best solution to this.” I believe Karen’s taken a self-defense course. I believe that I could give you a bloody nose and run, get the fuck out of there because that’s what being smart is. Rather than Matt, who knows how to stay in the fight and win and get his advantage. So I just want to make sure we keep our characters very true.

Has playing a journalist taught you how to navigate questions like these?

WOLL: No, working for HBO and Marvel taught me how to navigate journalistic questions. Actually, my aunt teaches journalism, so I have picked her brain a ton. Even in Punisher, we had the guy who wrote in a threat to the paper. She gave me a lot of information on the Unabomber and how that was handled. Just because I wanted to make sure we really followed the line on it. Obviously, it’s TV and you’re going to have to take some poetic license here and there. But yeah, it’s been nice to play that archetype a little bit. It’s cool.

To catch up on all of our Daredevil Season 3 set visit coverage, peruse the links below:

 

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Image via Netflix