Inspired by class spaghetti westerns, the drama series That Dirty Black Bag (which is available to stream at AMC+) is a brutal tale about the clash between Arthur McCoy (Dominic Cooper) a sheriff that isn’t who he presents himself to be, and Red Bill (Douglas Booth), a bounty hunter known for keeping the decapitated heads of his victims in the bag that he carries with him. In a town where the line between good guys and bad guys is not so well-defined and threats are all around, survival and revenge can become very dangerous and very violent.

During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, Cooper talked about why he got excited about That Dirty Black Bag, not particularly likely his character at first, the brutality of the Old West, playing someone who sees himself as the hero of his own story, and what makes him nervous when he starts a project. He also talked about whether he thinks Mamma Mia 3 could still happen, and how much he’s enjoyed portraying Howard Stark in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

Collider: You did a spy thriller (Spy City) and now you’ve done a western (That Dirty Black Bag), which seem like two genres on the wishlist of many actors. Were they both on yours? Were you actively pursuing doing those kinds of projects, or did you just luck out that you ended up in back-to-back projects that many actors dream of doing?

DOMINIC COOPER: Yeah, I think it was that. They are obviously things that a lot of actors would want to do. With the spy thriller, I remember having that first conversation during filming in Australia of the last season of Preacher. It was a big undertaking. It was a lot to do in a little time, but I had to do it. It was a period that is very poignant again now, but I didn’t know nearly as much about it as I thought I did, so I immersed myself completely in that immediately, just as soon as we’d wrapped Preacher. I’ve gotten to play a few different styles and different characters from different periods, quite quickly.

And then, with the script for That Dirty Black Bag, I remembered it being one of those scripts that I was excited to see what was happening next and where each of these characters ended up and what on earth was gonna happen. They’re not particularly likable, any of them, but the world just seemed vast. We jumped into a bit of it during Preacher, and I really enjoyed playing a sheriff. It was in his dream, in one of the episodes. And so, I thought it’d be exciting to give it a go. But it was scary. It’s a very specific world, and a world that is very far removed from my own, or very far removed from anything I thought I’d ever end up playing, but I was able to flesh out a lot about him. He changes a lot and there’s a lot revealed about him, later in the season.

I didn’t particularly like him at first. I really wanted to find a way of portraying him that would stand out against the other characters. There are so many, and our duty to an audience is to make sure that we make it very clear, each character’s journey and what each character stands for. You learn pretty quickly that this sheriff is quite corrupt and is not really what he says he is. He doesn’t care as much about the town as he says he does. He’s conflicted and, in his heart, he’s actually terrified. I thought that that was interesting. What he presents, what he represents, and what he shows is very different from what’s actually happening inside of him.

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Image via AMC+

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Are you the kind of actor who normally likes jumping from character to character right away, or do you usually prefer to have a break in between?

COOPER: I suppose just the nature of how we shoot now and the world in which we’re living through, there’s a lot to be filmed in a short space of time, so you really are living with that character for a long period of time. You can’t help that you start behaving a bit like the character, and that’s not a good thing. It’s really unhealthy and a lot of people dislike you, especially if they’re the kind of characters that I’m playing. You can’t help it. You just either become short-tempered, or you’re not very likable. There’s an essence. There’s something that happens to you where you take on a slight personality trait of the person you’re portraying, so I think it’s really important to go home, shut up, keep yourself to yourself for a while, and just become a human again, become normal, and don’t be taken to set in a car. You have to become normal again, and then you can reset. Then, you’re more prepared to absorb and observe life and a different world of a different character, through a different character’s eyes. I think that’s essential.

When you finish doing a project like this, do you then go home and go, “Okay, is Mamma Mia 3 still happening? Can we get that going, so that I can have a lighter world to live in for a bit?”

COOPER: Well, I feel like I’m always doing that. I was relieved to hear they’d (ABBA) written a new album. It’s funny you say that because it’s true, with how wonderful and how different something like that is, and the joy that brings to people. Again, it does take a different amount of energy and it does take a different amount from you. To go off to an island in Greece and sing every so often would be very important, but unfortunately it just doesn’t happen that often. That happened so early on for me, I thought that was just the way it would be. I thought, “Oh, I see, acting is just going around in boats and you live in Greece and you swim every day. You have a couple of days, here and there. Oh, I see.” I was brought back down to earth very quickly after that.

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Image via AMC+

That sequel has been COVID delayed into limbo, but is that something you’re hoping will still happen someday?

COOPER: I don’t know. I did send out a text to the producer, immediately when that album got so well reviews and I’d heard a couple of the songs I’d heard. I was like, “That’s phenomenal! They’re doing some new music again! Excellent!” But who knows? I don’t know. The last one took 10 years to come around. In 10 years’ time, I don’t know what I’m gonna look like, so I don’t know whether anyone would that in 10 years’ time, if I’m still around.

There’s a definite brutality to the Old West, which is very apparent in That Dirty Black Bag. What is that harsh reality like to explore? How does that motivate these characters and how does that really inform their behavior?

COOPER: I suppose it’s the struggle and the constant threat of death. We were operating in a place that had once had hope and that was quite an interesting thing to investigate. It’s a place where hope had vanished and the struggle of survival was present. There are a few characters who are pretending to wish for a future, where it’s like it was once before, and I suppose that’s quite a good observation of how either you survive and you get by, and you turn to theft and desperation and survival, or you try to make it a better place for everyone. Certainly, McCoy is responsible for having no desire, really, to make anything better for anyone. His dreams are definitely smashed to pieces, but he’s also terrified. He has this image of being a confidant sheriff who’s in charge and in control, but actually, he’s petrified. That’s why, even when he’s confronted with the opportunity to escape and leave the life that he knows, he’s incapable of doing so. He’s so damaged, like a lot of them, and ultimately, he’s weak.

I suppose that period must have been extraordinary. There was extreme wealth that suddenly evaporated and went. People dealt with that wealth in different ways. Did they invest? Did they build? Did they make a place better? Did they destroy it, lose it and remain violent and untrustworthy? It’s a world in which the fastest person to draw is the survivor. It’s pretty hideous. Each and every character that you meet is surviving in that world and is staring death in the face, each and every day. They’ve got a drought going on. They’ve got no water there. It’s pretty hideous. And they’re all vile to each other. You don’t really see them trying to understand the complexities of one another, or help each other, or see the light or the beauty of the world and what they once had. They’re just surviving.

It’s such an interesting story because, as the viewer, you find yourself trying to figure out who the good guys are and who the bad guys are, and whether there actually are any good guys. Is your character the type who sees himself as the hero of his own story?

COOPER: I think that’s a really good way to describe him. I think he does view himself as the hero of his own story. I think that’s a wonderful description. We watch that belief slowly being stripped away and he’s confronted by his own pathetic nature. He’s confronted with his inability to run away from that world. His past haunts him. He doesn’t do the things in the town that would make it thrive. He’s petrified. You watch him slowly start falling apart and becoming more and more vile, really. He actually only cares about himself and his survival, and because he’s so damaged, he’s just built this protection around him. When you realize who he is, he shouldn’t ever be a sheriff of a town. He’s just the worst possible sheriff to be looking after and making a place better. The first thing he’s confronted with is to help find a theft of these horses, and he doesn’t even do that. He says, “Just move away. Get out of here. Find a better life. Don’t try to make anything better. Just get it out.” It’s quite pathetic, really. That’s why I found him quite entertaining to play. But as you say, he is the hero of his own story, and he’s confronted with the fact that hero is pathetic.

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Image via AMC+

Are you someone who always gets nervous when you start a project? Do you get nerves going to set, every day? Do you not get nervous at all? How do you deal with that?

COOPER: I wonder whether there are people who don’t get nervous. It gets better with time. It’s a luxury when you are in something more than not. I remember the days of coming in and being a day player or being in a big scene with someone, having to get it right, and not really knowing. Wen you are part of the machine of it, it’s a gift because you can play around with it and you can take risks and you can dare to make big mistakes. This was a beautiful opportunity because we knew each other quite well, a few of us, and we also had time, at the beginning, because of COVID. Because we had to isolate for two weeks beforehand, we really rehearsed with one another and practiced and dared make big mistakes.

I’ve got some clear memories of just thinking “What am I doing? I shouldn’t be playing this part. What on Earth am I thinking? How dare I?” I remember with Preacher, wanting to run away, after the first day of meeting the producers and the director on the Sony lot, because I just thought, “I shouldn’t have this. Why have I been given this part?” You’re so scared to present your idea of that character. They might sit around and go, “Oh my God, we’ve made a massive mistake. This guy has no idea what he’s doing.” That’s the constant voice in your head that I think everyone is feeling. It’s a good feeling to finally be in a place where you feel confident enough to try things out, and if you fall flat on your face, it’s fine. But it’s quite a whole horrible environment in which to do so because you’ve got a camera on your face, every moment. It never gets too much easier, but it does get easier.

You’ve gotten to be a part of the MCU playing Howard Stark. Is it fun to get to be involved with the MCU, in a way that doesn’t fully take over your life and where you can just pop in and out, here and there, or have you always wished that you’d gotten to be a little more present in that whole world?

COOPER: Great question. I actually adore how I have it and hope that character returns. But I don’t know whether I really appreciated the part that I was taking on and what it meant. It was really good fun, and I just did what I thought was right. Maybe it would’ve been worse and maybe it would’ve been too much to take on because I didn’t know the comics. I was like, “Who is this guy? Oh, Howard Stark, alright. He’s someone’s father, is he? Oh, Iron Man? I see.” Maybe if I’d really been obsessed with it and known what big a undertaking it was, I would’ve been petrified and not done the job I did on it. I’m always asking the producers, “When are we doing something set in the fifties again?” I really enjoy playing that character. He’s such good fun. So, yes, it’s lovely to jump in and out, but maybe a little bit more because it’s a fun character to play.

The movies are just getting better and better and better, and they’re forever changing their style. I am that character now, so it would be very hard to do something else or work out how it fits in, but you never know. They’re an exciting company because they’re always coming up with ideas and possibilities. I always get a phone call from m friend, who’s a producer, saying, “What about this? Will you come over and do a test shoot?” I’m like, “Yeah, absolutely.” But there are three versions of us. We’re fighting for one character, depending on the time frame.

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Do you know what’s next for you? How do you figure that out?

COOPER: Our business changes constantly, and has done dramatically, in the last few years, which is wonderful because there are so many more platforms and a lot is being made. It’s hard to navigate or work out what it is you want. That’s something I’ve never been brilliant at, making decisions for yourself, as to where you see yourself, or what you see yourself doin, or what you wanna be doing. I’m very fortunate because things have come along before I’ve ended a job, or opportunities have arisen that I’ve really liked and I wanna grab ahold of. So, I’m gonna be working in London for the next few months, doing a job for the BBC that’s, again, very different. It’s period-based, but it’s a true story. You take it as it comes. In the world that we’re in at the moment, I’m just very fortunate to be working, and to be doing the job that I love doing, and to keep telling stories and informing. We love information and we love learning, and it’s a wonderful way in which to do that through entertainment. I’m loving it more and more. When you’re young, or when you get first get into it, you don’t quite realize the weight of that or the importance of it. You take it, as it were, as a bit of a joke. I’ve been very fortunate to get to be doing the characters I’ve managed to do, and fingers crossed it continues.

And what is that project that you’re doing for the BBC?

COOPER: It’s called The Gold. It’s another fantastic, horrible character. I’m played a sophisticated solicitor in the eighties, who’s completely corrupt and he defends dodgy police officers. It’s good fun because there’s what you are portraying, what you are perceived as, and what you are showing, and then there’s something going on inside that’s totally running in opposition to that. That, in itself, is an amazing note to play. It’s almost easier, in a way, because that note, in itself, is exciting and you can do something with that. Whereas if you’re just the out and out nice guy who’s the hero, that’s much harder to find nuance and to make that interesting to watch, so it’s a pleasure. But it doesn’t mean I’m horrible.

That Dirty Black Bag is available to stream at AMC+.