[Editor’s note: The following contains spoilers through the Season 2 mid-season finale of Evil, “C is for Cop.”]
From show creators Robert and Michelle King (The Good Fight, The Good Wife), the psychological mystery series Evil, which has already been picked up for Season 3 and is available to stream at Paramount+, explores the line between science and religion and questions whether evil really lives among us. As Kristen (Katja Herbers), David (Mike Colter) and Ben (Aasif Mandvi) continue to dig into unexplained events — including possible miracles, demonic possessions, and hauntings — in search of whether something has a logical explanation or could be the result of something truly supernatural, strange occurrences happening in their own lives are preying on their greatest fears.
During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider to discuss the events of the first half of the season (new episodes will continue on August 29), Herbers talked about what she’s most enjoyed with Season 2, the surprising journey for her character, the shocking events of Episode 6, how Kristen will be affected moving forward, the blessing of working with the four young actresses who play her daughters, and how much she trusts what the Kings are doing with the show.
Collider: This has been such an interesting show that allows for so many intriguing subjects to be explored in ways that other shows don’t or can’t explore them. It’s a show that also doesn’t always have the answers and sometimes just raises more questions. What have you most enjoyed about what you’ve gotten to do with this show, over two seasons now, and specifically with Season 2?
KATJA HERBERS: I love that Kristen is unraveling and that I get to play someone who went from being a suburban mom with four kids, having an interesting job as a forensic psychologist, and being really good at her job, and having an interesting backstory of being a mountain climber, to then being a murderer at the end of the first season. Now, she’s dealing with the fact that she did that in the second season and feeling like she’s losing her mind, trying to scientifically explain the things that she’s seeing and thinking that she’s hallucinating because she doesn’t believe in supernatural things. That’s a dream role for me. I get to do so much. I have all of these secrets that I keep from Ben and David. At the moment, I’m not honest with anyone. It’s such a privilege to get to play her. I love it.
It’s so interesting because she is a relatively normal person surrounded by typical human chaos, and yet she’s found herself in this extreme world that she never expected to find herself in. How do you feel she’s most changed by everything that she’s been through, everything she’s done, and everything she’s seen now?
HERBERS: She thought of herself as a very stable and sane person. She thought she was a very good mother and a good wife. She’s a smart woman and an interesting person. And now, here she is, a murderer. Sorry to reiterate that, but it’s just so big. It just changes her perception of herself. She’s falling apart. She’s a stranger to herself.
When you found out that she was actually going to cross that line and kill someone, what was your reaction to that? When the Kings told you that, did they also tell you what that was going to mean for her?
HERBERS: No. The funny thing is, when we shot that in the first season, we didn’t know if we were gonna say that she did or that she didn’t kill him. We knew that we were gonna hint at it. I didn’t film the actual killing in the first season. I only filmed it in the second. We talked about it and we decided that I should just play it as though I did, and then we’d figure it out, starting the second season. And then, Robert and Michelle King said, “Look, we think you did.” And I was like, “Yeah, I think I did too.” And it’s so great because obviously one shouldn’t kill someone, however, this person was an actual threat to her children and a serial killer. If anyone deserves to die, he’s on the list. The Kings were a little bit worried, in the beginning, that you could maybe lose sympathy for her, but I was never very worried because I thought there are probably gonna be a lot of people who understand that you’re gonna do whatever you need to do to protect your children. He wasn’t playing. He was in my house, leaving fruit baskets. He was standing in front of my house. I called all the authorities and told them to do something. He filed a restraining order against me. This guy was not gonna let go. So, I really loved walking that line. I was never really worried that people were gonna think, “We’re not with her.” Maybe there are some people that aren’t with her, but overall, I feel like their response is, “Yeah, mama bear.”
I love that this is a lead character on a show and she’s done this horrible thing and killed somebody, and I justify it because he was such a horrible guy. If she was going to kill someone, at least it was this guy.
HERBERS: Yeah. If she killed anyone else, that’s an entirely different story, obviously.
As you took the journey with her, over the course of the season, did your feelings change about what she did?
HERBERS: It’s not like you see someone who’s just fine. Clearly, she’s not a psychopath. She’s dealing with the guilt of it. She understands that she did something that you shouldn’t do. However, she’s not okay. I think she would do it again, if put in the same position. After Episode 6, when she’s acquitted from this murder, she’s acquitted because she’s white and she has a friend who’s a cop, and her friend is like, “You don’t look like a killer. You drive a Subaru and you’re a suburban mom. Nothing’s gonna point at you.” Although she’s obviously extremely relieved that she doesn’t have to go to prison for the rest of her life and can still be a mom to her children, because her biggest fear was that she was gonna be taken away from her children, that’s a huge relief. But seconds later, in that moment, she also realizes that she’s gonna forever be shackled, in a way, because she is a murderer and she’s not gonna be held accountable for what she did. She’s not gonna be held accountable because she has a friend who’s a cop and because she’s white. The other storyline we see in Episode 6 is a white cop shooting an unarmed Black woman in her car, which unfortunately is something we see very often in America. I really love that episode. I love that Kristen is now also part of that conceit.
That’s not gonna go away. In a way, she is in prison. She’s still with her kids. She’s gonna be okay, but it’s not gonna stop her from unraveling more because she’s gonna have to deal with this additional guilt that she didn’t think she would have to deal. When the cops show up and she has her ice ax right there, she thinks that’s the end. And when she says, “I’m guilty,” she thinks the next step is that she’s gonna be handcuffed and taken to prison, and she’s gonna admit that she did it. She knows it’s done. And then, her friend says, “No, no, no, I got this. We’ll say that there was a Black man in your yard and you were scared. It’s gonna be fine. This guy deserved to die.” As a viewer, we can all agree that he deserved to die, but if I was a Black woman and I didn’t have a connection to a cop, would it be the same outcome? No, it wouldn’t be. So, therefore, I really love that episode. It’s an important episode and a very interesting one. For me, it’s great, as an actor, because I get to play both of those things. I’m relieved, but I’m also forever chained, in a way, and I’m gonna have to deal with that for the rest of the season. You’ll see me unravel a bit more.
I thought it was such a brilliant way to handle a subject like that, where it really does make a statement on it, but it connects it directly to the characters, instead of just having it be a social commentary.
HERBERS: Yeah, I agree. For sure, with this episode, but I feel like that’s what makes our show good. Everything keeps on being tied to the journey of these characters. It has this procedural element, but I actually think it’s a character-driven show.
Is Kristen in a place now where she feels like she’s gotten away with murder?
HERBERS: Yeah, I think so. She’s got this new feeling of guilt for getting away with something unjustly, but luckily there’s not somebody else going to jail for her crime. This is just gonna not be solved. They’ll just close the file. Does she think that the world would be better if she goes to jail? I don’t think so. There’s some sense of her still thinking that she’s a good person and she did the right thing, but she also deeply believes in justice, and this is not justice. It’s just a very complicated thing for her to grapple with. That’s not free. It might seem like she’s just set free, but she’s gonna suffer from it as well.
While she seems to not have any guilt over the actual murder of LeRoux, does she have guilt over also dragging her daughter into this, when she tries to get her daughter to lie for her?
HERBERS: You see her think, “This is really bad,” but what’s the alternative? There really isn’t one. It’s worse for the daughter, if I go to prison. She’s also pragmatic. That’s a moment of, “Gosh, this is awful, but it’s definitely more awful if your mommy goes to jail, so let’s just make it this version.”
Even though he’s dead now, was it fun to still get to have that scene between Kristen and LeRoux?
HERBERS: Yeah, it was amazing. I also really love the actor, Darren Pettie. He’s wonderful. I did really love that because it also allowed a peek into her brain because he’s a manifestation of her imagination and her guilt. I love that the way that we staged it, it’s almost sexual, when he talks to her about what it feels like to murder someone and how there’s nothing like it, and how if you get addicted to that, you might wanna do it again. That’s her brain coming up with that. That’s not him saying that. That’s her imagination of what he might say. That also opens the door to, would she ever do it again? I think that if she’s put in a similar situation, the bar is probably lower. It’s not as hard to do it, a second time. I don’t know. I’m not a murderer. Maybe once that line is crossed, it’s not unthinkable. I think it was unthinkable to her before then.
Because we had to wait a while for the second season, it’s nice to know that we will get a Season 3. Have you already had conversations about what that will look like and what you might continue to explore? Do you have general big picture conversations with the Kings, or do you get specific with them about what’s to come?
HERBERS: We will, but not just yet. Every year, we have a meeting with the whole writers’ room, where we talk about a few ideas. It’s just them coming up with amazing stuff, and then me going, “Great! I love it. That’s exactly what I wanna be playing.” I didn’t know that this would be my trajectory this season. It just ended up being the trajectory. I’m not very aware of where things are going beforehand.
Even with all of the creepy and the horror of this show, one of the things that people talk about the most is the relationship between Kristen and her daughters, and how real that feels. What’s it been like for you to establish those bonds and relationships with those girls and to get to do those scenes with them?
HERBERS: It’s a blessing, really. I love those girls so much, in real life, and we do have a very genuine bond. I think that’s maybe what people respond to. We don’t just come to set and then do our little thing when. When the girls are on set, I’m basically constantly with them, and we’re constantly playing and having fun. And then, we’ll also do a little bit of a scene. We do it in between, which I think helps to keep it so natural. They’re amazing. All four of them are absolutely amazing. I adore them. I think we’ll be fake TV family for life.
It’s so fun that Leland has become a case for the team this season, especially when he’s someone who’s always manipulating everyone and everything and we still have no clue what his motivation really is. What was your reaction to finding out that’s how he would be a part of the story this season and what do you think Michael Emerson brings to the table?
HERBERS: He brings a lot to the table. He’s amazing. After that episode last season, where Kristen roasted him, after she found out that he was Jake the Flake, played tuba in marching band, and that he couldn’t get it up. She just destroyed him, and that’s the moment when she was just done with that guy. After killing LeRoux, he’s little fish. She doesn’t worry about him too much anymore, which might be wrong. She’s gonna give the air of not being impressed by his bullshit. I do think she still thinks he’s a psychopath, but I don’t think she feels, right now, that he’s as dangerous as he is.
Working on a show that raises a lot of questions, and sometimes more than it answers, do you personally enjoy when things are left a bit more ambiguous in the storytelling, as opposed to giving direct and definitive answers to things?
HERBERS: Oh, yeah. When is life ever definitive? I don’t know. I really enjoy that because I think it also engages the viewer and us, as actors, in a big way. You have to think about stuff yourself a little bit. It’s not presented to you as, “Oh, here’s a bow tie. That’s what we think it is.” Also, it allows us to go back to open-ended things and bring it back in future episodes. I think the Kings are extremely smart and therefore they leave it open-ended sometimes.
Evil is available to stream at Paramount+.