From creators/showrunners Lucia Aniello, Paul W. Downs and Jen Statsky, the second season of the HBO Max original comedy series Hacks follows legendary Las Vegas comedian Deborah Vance (Jean Smart) on the road and traveling across the country with talented but disgruntled writer Ava (Hannah Einbinder). As they workshop a new stand-up act, they quickly learn what works and what doesn’t, both on stage and in their own collaborative relationship.
During this interview with Collider, co-stars Smart and Einbinder talked about what makes Hacks special, not wanting to let fans of the series down with Season 2, how they felt about the journey for their characters, why the honeymoon phase is over for Deborah and Ava, and Smart’s experience singing on the show.
Collider: Jean, you did Watchmen, Mare of Easttown and Hacks in a pretty short amount of time, and I really love how different all three of those projects are from each other. What makes Hacks special for you?
JEAN SMART: Oh, my gosh, I feel like Hacks gave me everything that Mare did and everything that Watchmen did, combined. On top of that, the character of Deborah is so funny. It was just everything I could have hoped for, leading up to this. I still can’t believe, sometimes, that it came along when it came along. And those two projects that I’ve done recently were some of my all-time favorites. But like I said, I feel like it all just led up to this.
What most excited you guys about a second season? You did the first season in a bubble, and then you heard fan reaction to the show and the show was really successful. Was it scarier to go into a second season with an expectation, or was it just really exciting to know what cool things could be in store?
HANNAH EINBINDER: We don’t wanna let anyone down because it’s been such a precious show for so many people, ourselves included. But when we started to get the scripts for Season 2, it became very clear that they managed to do it again. In my opinion, the material is elevated and even better than the first season. That was something where I was like, how is that possible? But it is. It’s been really nice to start to talk to people about it, like yourself, because knowing that journalists and people who are professionals around TV and film, getting that positive affirmation from y’all has just been like, “Oh, thank God.” It’s just such a relief because we’re performers, and we’re critical of ourselves, at times, so it’s just really nice. We do care, and we just want people to feel that these characters are cherished and honored by us.
I feel like I was holding my breath, not knowing what Season 2 would be. Jean, what was that like for you? Do you get a script first to read, or do they call and tell you what they’re thinking of for doing for the season?
SMART: For Season 2, I didn’t really ask them a lot of questions. I knew that we were gonna be on the road, which I thought sounded fine, as long as we didn’t go too far away from home. All I really knew was that Deborah and Ava were gonna be working out this new material, in little clubs around the country. It turned out that was a great platform for all sorts of hijinks and fodder for a lot of comic moments.
In the first season, it felt like these two women were fighting with each other a lot. While there are still roadblocks between them, does it feel like they’re a bit more on the same page this season, or does it just depend on the day or the moment?
EINBINDER: In the beginning, they have to deal with the email.
SMART: Oh, that.
EINBINDER: It still haunts my dreams, to this day. But when you’re on the road with someone, especially on a tour bus, and you’re sleeping on a bus with someone, the honeymoon phase is over and your relationship is completely to the next level. It’s like when you have a friend and you’re like, “We should move in together.” And then, you move in with them and you’re like, “You use paper plates and don’t take out the trash.” You see the real person. The two of them get along well because they are really similar, at the end of the day. They get in that groove and we just get to see them really settled into their dynamic.
SMART: There’s more of a familiarity, but familiarity breeds contempt.
It seems like every time Ava is finally cracking Deborah’s attitude toward her, something else happens, like the email. What do you guys think about that action that Deborah takes? Does it feel justified? Does it feel like too much? What was your reaction to learning how Deborah was gonna deal with that?
EINBINDER: It’s terrifying, and it’s really sad and hard because Ava sends that email when she is blacked out on pills and alcohol. It’s not how she feels. She loves Deborah, but she’s casting really harsh, nasty judgments without any shred of empathy because she’s hammered and completely fucked up. It isn’t actually a representation of how she sees Deborah or feels about her, so it’s really hard. She’s like, “I did this thing, but I don’t stand by it, in any way, and I was drunk.” But nonetheless, it’s going to potentially, as far as she knows, get in the hands of the wrong people.
SMART: Like Helen Mirren.
EINBINDER: So, yeah, it’s certainly nerve-wracking. It was really hard to go through. Those first couple of episodes were a dark time.
Jean, your show creators told me that you actually had asked, during Season 1, to sing on the show, but that you might have regretted that decision by Season 2, when it actually happened.
SMART: I completely regretted it.
What made you want to sing on the show, and how did you feel in the reality of the moment?
SMART: When mistakenly mentioned that I might wanna sing on the show, I figured it would be in the distant future and that I’d have months and months and months with a vocal coach to get my voice back in shape because it’s just shredded from doing the show. So when, all of a sudden, it was, “In the next episode, you’re singing,” not only was I singing, but I was singing two songs that are some of the most difficult pop songs ever written, with the biggest jumps in octaves, and recorded by two of the most famous accomplished pop singers, Linda Ronstadt and Aretha Franklin. So, I decided that Deborah doesn’t have to sound perfect. She’s not a singer. She’s intoxicated. She’s having a good time. It didn’t have to sound great.
EINBINDER: But it did.
SMART: It was embarrassing. For the cruise episode, I had to throw all caution to the wind and dance it out on stage. I said, “Jean, just don’t think about it. You just have to make a complete ass of yourself, in this episode.”
How do you guys feel about where things left off, at the end of this season, and how do you think audiences will feel about where Season 2 ends?
SMART: I literally don’t remember, in this moment right now, how it ended.
EINBINDER: I’ll tell you later. There’s a big shift.
SMART: I don’t remember the episode. Can you gimme a hint?
EINBINDER: Yes, the rooftop.
SMART: Oh God, of course. Oh, yeah. It’s an ending that you wouldn’t expect. [Hannah] called me in tears.
Hacks is available to stream at HBO Max.