In Season 2 of the HBO drama series His Dark Materials, a new world and higher stakes has sent Lyra (Dafne Keen) into the unknown and on a dangerous path. Once in this mysterious abandoned city and alongside her new friend Will (Amir Wilson), Lyra tries to stay far enough out of the reach of Mrs. Coulter (Ruth Wilson) to fulfill her destiny.

During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, actor Ariyon Bakare, who plays the mysterious and dangerous Lord Boreal, talked about wanting to approach his character differently from what might be expected, finding what’s human about a fantastical world, how being an actor is about a blend of movement and voice, what makes Lord Boreal unlike any character he’s played before, not becoming the mustache-twirling villain, exploring the dynamic between Boreal and Mrs. Coulter, and his favorite moment of the season. He also talked about the iCare initiative he started to raise awareness about racial equality and how it’s helped him to keep the conversation about race going.

Collider: This is a series that has so many fans and so many people love this property, which gives you a built-in audience. How does that make being a part of a show like that the best job, and how does it also make it scary?

ARIYON BAKARE: Because people have preconceived ideas of what the show is going to be and what the characters should be like, it makes it really nerve-wracking to see if you fit the bill. In that sense, you work a little bit harder and try your best to push boundaries and shock people. You read a story and every individual has their own vision of what each character is. For me, I wanted to turn it on its head and see if I could play something a little bit different. If you get them on your side and they start to agree with what you’re doing, then you know you’ve done a really great job. So, it’s exciting on one level and nerve-wracking on another.

You’ve done a few sci-fi and fantasy projects now, with Good Omens and Carnival Row, and now His Dark Materials. Have you always been a fan of genre? Or, what can genre metaphorically explore that’s drawn you to it?

BAKARE: I don’t really know. It’s really interesting because I didn’t realize that’s where I would land, but I just gravitated toward the storytelling. As an actor, sometimes you just take whatever parts are offered to you, but it means you can play grandiose characters and create a bit more. I think that’s why I like it so much.

This is dense, challenging, complicated, complex material. What was the way into this story for you? What was it that helped you to understand the world, as it was being established around you?

BAKARE: Finding what’s human about it. There were very dense, complicated questions that they were asking. I just wanted to figure out where I saw myself, if I ask those questions. When do I question authorities? When do I question my existence? What’s my purpose? I put all of those questions into the character, and then tried to bond with that. Hopefully, it fit. The great thing is that there is great source material there, so I can always go back to that for reference. And there are other references. There are so many places I could go to find out where Phillip’s mind was at. There are so many avenues to find the character. It’s a journey. It’s stressful at times. You make mistakes, but then you forget about the mistakes and you just keep going. Hopefully, you can come up with something brilliant.

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Image via HBO

With any first season of any series, you’re trying to figure out your character, you’re establishing the relationships, and you’re figuring out their place in the world. What was the biggest relief for you, in finishing the journey of Season 1, and what was the most exciting part of seeing the fan reaction of that season?

BAKARE: I was so nervous about the reaction because I’m certainly not what you read in a book. I took everything out of the book. I took what I loved from it, and then I turned it on its head. In the book, he’s a very smiley, very happy, and a very calculative character who weasels his way through. He’s a lot older than me, he’s white, he’s gray haired. I’m a Black guy and I want to make sure I kept that sense of it. I came at it from a totally different angle. So, I was excited that people liked that mysterious quality with a sense of this guy who pushing his emotions to one side. You feel as if he’s going to crack. He’s like glass that could crack, at any moment. He’s filtering all of these ideas, knowledge and emotions, and kept them inside. You just don’t know when it’s got to explode. I wanted to teeter on the edge of that explosion. That was a big thing for me.

Since you don’t look like Lord Boreal as he’s described in the book, when this project came your way, was it clear to you that they were open to not necessarily having to stick to the description of the character in the book?

BAKARE: No. I remember speaking to a producer about it. When I first walked in, and I did my interpretation of what I felt the character would be, and they just rolled with it. My first audition was a 4-page scene and just tried to bring it to a modern world and a modern audience to see if they’d buy into it, and they did.

On the page, was there anything specific about the character, in his style, in the way that he moved and spoke, or just in who he is, that you wanted to bring to him?

BAKARE: My first port of call was always his daemon. I found that really interesting. His daemon being a snake meant that something is continuously contorting inside himself. He’s someone who holds back emotion. I always wanted to play him as emotionless and that he has a hard exterior on the outside. My thing was to always keep myself very still. I wanted him to be like a snake, ready to pounce.

It’s so interesting when we actually get to see his daemon and when we don’t.

BAKARE: That’s the thing, he has this daemon that he’s hiding inside him. I was speaking to one of the directors and I said, “It’s almost as if he’s got an illness that’s constantly writhing around inside his body and causing him pain, and he needs to release that pain.”

I find the stillness of your performance so fascinating. Is that aspect something that you also feel like your own dance background plays into?

BAKARE: Being an actor is always about movement for me. Movement and voice go together. If you move in a certain way, your voice goes in a certain way. If you have a certain attitude, physically, then it creates an internal feeling inside you, as well. I’ve always used that. I always find that my first port of call. How does someone physically move? How does someone physically fill the space? I guess that is my dance background, but it’s also many years of just watching people walk by and wondering why the move a certain way, and sometimes I find myself copying them. If I put on shoes that are a little higher, they’ll make me feel one way, and if I put on lighter shoes, they’ll make me feel another way. I use movement and physicality. I think I’m more of a physical actor, anyway. I love transformation, so if I can transform in as many ways as possible, I do. And I try to do that every single day. I think that’s why people never recognize me.

So, if you have a sense of your body and a sense of movement, that affects the way you speak, as well. I can play with those two things together. It is my dance background, but it’s also my drama training. When I started with Lord Boreal, I looked at the way a snake would move and tried to interpret that idea into the way I would move, as a human being. He floats into rooms and he never takes his eyes off of anybody. He’s always watching. The most important thing is that internal life. It’s your little secret. With Boreal, he’ll never be able to share that with anybody. He wants to be the most powerful person. He wants to take over the Magisterium. He’s a megalomaniac, but he’s got all of these secrets that he keeps inside, so you never really know what’s going on. In the book, he’s someone who smiles a lot, but it didn’t feel right for me to do that. I thought that would just feel creepy, so I tried not to smile. That gave him a different intensity that’s quite sinister and dark, and there’s a real dark force in him. You feel like he’s driven by his own internal means.

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Image via HBO

If you were to have your own daemon that represented your soul, what do you think would best represent you?

BAKARE: I’d say dolphin because I really do love dolphins and I think they’re beautiful. But when I really think about it, I probably would be either a panther or an eagle. Most likely, a golden eagle. The idea of just being able to soar and see everything from above, and find your target, swoop down and get what you want, is very appealing. You’d have a sharp eye and you’d look amazing.

What makes Boreal unlike any other that you’ve played before? What makes him special to you?

BAKARE: The source material, really. It's always down to the source material. It was all there. That, and this is a man who’s actually much more passionate than people think. He has deep feelings inside, but he’s never really been able to express it because he’s always been suppressed. He’s never been able to live. So, he has this duality, as Charles Latrom, to be a collector. He’s accumulated wealth in a way that he probably would not have been able to accumulate in another world. He’s used his knowledge. It’s inspiring when you see something like that. You think, “Oh, wow, this guy’s really making do with something and he’s really driven.” That’s the thing about the character that I love playing. He’s this terrific man who wants something and he’s going to go and get it. It doesn’t matter who stands in the way?

When you’re playing a character like this, who is equal parts charismatic and menacing, how do you balance that, so that you don’t ever lose the danger of it, but you also don’t turn him into a mustache-twirling villain?

BAKARE: By keeping it real, by finding your own personal stillness, and by finding your own personal evils. Everyone has got dark and light inside themselves, so I always try to find whatever my darkness is. What’s my quiet zone? What’s my moment where I’m quite discerning and I stand back? I’m always looking for what that is and being in the moment, so that I can respond and react in that space. There are so many things you do to constantly ground yourself, as an actor. It is quite fantastical, so you have to lock into one thing. When you’re locked into that idea, just keep going and be passionate about that idea, and be forceful because there will be a lot of people around you going, “No, no, no, in the book it’s like this . . .” You have to say, “No, I wanna do it like this. This is how I’m going to go for it. You’ve got to trust me.” Luckily, that was the case with His Dark Materials. They trusted my ideas and what I wanted to do with it.

Who do you see as the villain of Lord Boreal’s story? What’s in his way?

BAKARE: That’s a really interesting question. If I’m really honest, he is in his own way. He’s so blinded by his megalomaniac needs. It’s like that with most people. We are our own enemy, and he’s his own enemy. If he was a little bit more open and he did share some of his ideas early on, he might have more people supporting him, but instead he kept it all to himself and was very greedy with it. So, his own villain is himself, really. It’s his duality. Charles Latrom is his villain. And who’s standing in his way and stopping him in physical terms? Lyra stops him. Lyra is his main obstacle, and also Will.

What did you enjoy about getting to explore the dynamic between Boreal and Mrs. Coulter, and getting to work with Ruth Wilson?

BAKARE: There are so many things that I could say. She is just an amazing actress. I was always a fan of hers, before I started working with her. Actually having the pleasure of being on screen and sharing scenes and working on scenes together, you realize how immense her talent is. It was a joy. We spent evenings talking and breaking things down. We have the same kind of mind, in that way. We’re quite analytical. Everything has got to be quite precise. It was quite a pleasure to meet someone who has that same kind of work ethic. You don’t know where she’s going to go next. She’s very dangerous. She has this real poisonous, spiteful tongue about her that is quite seductive, at the same time. Sometimes I found myself getting lost in just watching her perform, but then I was like, “Well, that’s my character. He falls in for her, in the same way. He just loves watching her. He wants to collect her.” She’s like a trophy wife to him. There were so many elements of working on this show with her, that made my time there even more exciting.

But I can also say that about Amir, and everyone. There wasn’t anyone that I didn’t really enjoy working with. It’s a great cast. We’re a great family. People think there must be someone bad, but no. We really did get on. It’s a great cast of people.

When you play someone who is so driven by ambition, is there ever a point that’s enough for him?

BAKARE: You always assume there is an end point, but as you we all know, ambition is fueled by hunger, and you’re always hungry. You’re never going to stop being hungry, so you always want more. If you want more and more and more, then you know where the end is going to be. That’s why I say that his own nemesis is basically himself. He’s so driven by his own ambition and the need to control. It comes from a place of insecurity, of course. It comes from a place of not being seen and feeling invisible, and now he wants to be visible, but he wants to be visible in the biggest, most magnificent way.

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Image via HBO

How do you feel this season and the book that it’s based on, The Subtle Knife, are most different from the first season? How would you describe the mood and the tone, especially as it pertains to your character?

BAKARE: I think this season is all about trust, and who we find in each world to trust and be our companion to help us achieve our ultimate goals. Lyra finds Will. I find Mrs. Coulter. Everyone is trying to find someone to support them in their journey. Sometimes we should be careful who we do trust. Some people are doing things for ulterior motives, which is quite selfish.

When you do this series, how much do you actually know? Do you get told a whole season arc? Do you learn things episode to episode? Do you refer to the book?

BAKARE: All of it. Everything you just said is my working process on any show. If you have a book that is your reference point, it’s very easy to go to it. You can go back to the writers and say, “I need this or that,” and then they’ll work with you to help you get there. You have to remember that there’s a bigger picture. Sometimes you want to push more for what’s in the book. Adaptations are very hard for actors because some of the stuff that you want is not going to be there. It’s a journey of exploration, so there are different ways of coming at it. You can use different tools to get there, but we’re all in it for the same thing, for it to be the best it can be. I use all of that. I’ve used everything that I can.

Because so much of this character and his agenda is internal, how different would you say his goals are at the beginning of the season, from what they are by the end of the season?

BAKARE: He’s Machiavellian and he’s opposed to anything, so he’s continuously shifting and shape-shifting to achieve his goal. He uses people to get whatever he wants. He hasn’t learned trust. In this season, you see his weakness and you see the chink in his armor. That vulnerability was interesting to find. The only person he wants to impress is the person he wants to use as a trophy wife. He think, “If I have her, then I have everything.”

Do you have a favorite moment in a specific episode, this season?

BAKARE: I’d tell you, but it’s a spoiler alert. One of my favorite ones is in the final episode. I can’t say why, but we filmed it at the beginning and that was my template for the rest of the season. I didn’t know where it was going to go, and I was like, “Wow, okay, we found something magical.” We found a relationship there, which was really lovely. Having those magical moments is amazing.

Outside of your work as a performer, you’ve now launched the iCare initiative to raise awareness about racial equality. What made you want to start that platform, especially knowing how much of an ongoing conversation it would need to and have to be?

BAKARE: I ask myself that question, every day. Every day, I’m fearful that it’s going to be a conversation that I have for eternity, but it’s a conversation that I have every day, anyway. It’s something that I can’t really get away from. I’m a Black man living in this world. It’s a conversation that’s been happening silently and in groups, and I can’t really hide from it. What made me start it was the incident with George Floyd. It was seeing things, over the years. I couldn’t just be quiet anymore. I had to be someone who creates a space where people can have a conversation about racial inequality. At the end of the day, I wanna live in a world where you don’t see color. In my little tiny world, that’s where I am. I see everybody as people. The only way to do that is by having conversations and saying, “This is what’s going on. Let’s talk about it.” That’s the only way to completely erase racism, hopefully.

Are there ways that starting it has unknowingly helped you, that you didn’t expect?

BAKARE: Yeah, it’s helped me understand other people’s stories. It’s helped me realize that I’m not alone in the way that I feel. And it’s made me realize that people want to have a conversation. People who were scared to ask questions are now asking questions. People want the truth. In the past, I was always a person who would post on social media or I’d like someone else’s post, but I was never someone who could actually go out and say, “Look, something needs to be done.” This is the first time in my life that I feel like I’m doing something that’s making a difference and there’s a need for it, and I can have the power in me. Actually, if I just use my voice properly, it can be a beacon of hope for other people. That’s where I’m at. I want people to have conversations. You can march, you can walk, you can make a placard, you can scream, you can create an initiative that lasts for two or three years and then fades out, but at the end of the day, after all of that, you have to converse. If you have a conversation, then people to open to finding out who you are, and we get to know who we are, without fear. That’s really what it’s about.

His Dark Materials airs on Monday nights on HBO.