[Editor’s note: The following containers some spoilers for Season 3 of Succession.]
From creator Jesse Armstrong, the highly acclaimed and much beloved HBO drama series Succession is back for a stinging third season, with the power dynamics in the Roy family shifting in a rather perilous way that feels like it could take down anyone in its path at any time. After Kendall’s (Jeremy Strong) decision to expose the depths of the company’s scandal, patriarch Logan Roy (Brian Cox) has pitted his other adult children – including Shiv (Sarah Snook), Roman (Kieran Culkin) and Connor (Alan Ruck) – against each other, wanting them to spy, snitch and claw their way into what could become a family civil war.
At a virtual junket for Season 3, Collider got the opportunity to chat 1-on-1 with J. Smith-Cameron (who plays Gerri, currently the interim CEO of Waystar Royco for however long that lasts) about whether she misses Gerri when she’s not playing the role, the collaborative relationship with the creative team and the input she’s given, the one point she disagreed with a director about, the Gerri-Roman dynamic in Season 3 and what makes Culkin such a wonderful acting partner, Gerri’s mental state by the end of the season, and why she doesn’t want this dreamy job to end.
Collider: Did you miss Gerri, in the time between finishing filming Season 2 and starting Season 3, or is she someone that you’re happy to pack away for a little bit?
J. SMITH-CAMERON: That’s a great question. I do miss her. I did miss her. She’s definitely an alter ego for me. I’m not a bit like her. I don’t feel I’m much like her. It’s a great character, and an unusual one for me. I feel a little pride of ownership about it because it’s the kind of show where you all collaborate and you make up the characters together, in a way. (Show creator) Jesse [Armstrong] really gives us a certain degree of ownership of our characters. In my case, it started out being a guy, and then I got cast and bit by bit, my behavior began to inform the writing and the writing informed my behavior. I didn’t know what was the chicken and what was the egg. It was really, really fun.
Are you comfortable making suggestions about character or dialogue, or do you feel like you don’t even really need to?
SMITH-CAMERON: I definitely don’t need to, but yes I do sometimes. I think we all do. Everyone’s pretty discreet about it, so I’m not sure. Sometimes I’ll just tell Jesse something that I imagine for Gerri. For instance, I had this idea that she has two daughters, and he was like, “Well, I don’t know. I’ve never thought about it. I guess I thought she was childless. Let me think about it. Let’s just stick a pin in it.” And then, we never did talk about it again. In an improv session in Episode 9 of Season 2, a Senator asked Gerri if she had children, and I was like, “Yes, I have two girls.” It was fantastic because she said, “Oh, okay. Well, in that event, how would you feel if your daughters took a Waystar cruise?” And being the wily lawyer that Gerri is, I had the presence of mind enough to say, “Well, I’m happy you asked me that because now, with the amount of oversight that we’re giving this cruise in light of everything that’s come up, I can’t think of a safer or more pleasant vacation for them.” I totally spun it. That was for some footage that was playing in the background, so we didn’t hear that. But then, there was a little reference to the daughters in the last episode of Season 2. That’s fun. I don’t know how consequential that will turn out to be, but I’ve had little thoughts, along the way, like that.
Has there ever been anything that you’ve disagreed with or that you’ve had to have more conversation about, just to understand where they were coming from?
SMITH-CAMERON: I was completely thrown by the idea that there was gonna be some kind of liaison between Gerri and Roman. When they first told me that, I was like, “What?! This is a horrible mistake.” And then, I thought, “Well, that’s probably what Gerri thinks too.” There are no mistakes, really, you just have to think of clever ways out of them. The only other time that comes to mind, right now that you ask, is way back in Season 1, when we knew we were gonna see Gerri’s apartment. One of the directors mentioned to me, “We’re gonna see inside Gerri’s apartment, and we think it might be funny if it’s really in bad taste.” And I was like, “No, no, no, no, the opposite. It would be designed by whoever was the absolute grooviest person. She probably has a maid come in twice a day, like at a hotel, and somebody brings milk and coffee and puts it in the fridge, and that’s it, because she’s such a work animal. Quite the opposite. It would be above reproach and reveal very little of her private life, in her decor.” So, they listened to me. It was just a passing thought the director had, but I was glad they mentioned that to me, before they designed that set, because I really didn’t think that was true and I got a say in that, which was a relief.
What do you most enjoy about where Roman and Gerri are at, in Season 3? It seems like she’s putting him in his place a little bit more this season.
SMITH-CAMERON: The way that I reconciled it for Gerri was that she thought, “Okay, I can use this to my advantage. If I could somehow take his weird desire for me and turn it into a mentorship, and if I can be his mentor and he can be my mentee, we can use the sexual energy somehow to make the rock star and the mole woman a reality. It actually makes very good sense. He’s very charismatic, he actually has really good ideas, he’s very bold, he’s very stylish, eh has a certain amount of appeal, and I’m the careful one who has experience and who has thought it all out. In spite of themselves, they have this real almost tenderness or bond, in addition to or in spite of whatever weird sexual thing might be brewing or trying to brew.
I’m trying to really train the path of the thing to my advantage. It’s more and more frustrating for me because, even if I were interested in having sex with Roman, my character is way too wise. She’s not the type to make that kind of mistake. Things are coming to a boil. He’s pushing his agenda, and I’m pushing my agenda, and there’s some little unspoken thing that, in spite of ourselves, we’re getting attached to each other, in some kind of way. We’re becoming friends. It’s a weird mix and it’s pushing the edge of what will happen between them, if anything. Something’s gonna happen. I’m like, “No, no, no, this is really dangerous.” I don’t think I’d be the type of person, even if I were totally in love with anyone, to put myself in that kind of a vulnerable position at work.
What’s the best part about having Kieran Culkin to play that with because he really seems like he is so game for anything, especially in that dynamic?
SMITH-CAMERON: That’s a good word for it. He’s such a free and released kind of actor. He’s so inventive. He’s so confident. He knows his character so well. There’s enough overlap between his own rhythms and his own sense of humor that he’s quite equipped to just improv and make things up. He’s wonderful. He’s wonderfully game, but the rules of how the attraction works for Roman make it a little tricky sometimes. He can’t make a pass at Gerri and look her in the eye, so it makes it a little hard because you can’t have a tacit exchange. I can’t get him to keep still and look at me, so it’s a little challenging, but he’s a wonderful acting partner. He’s terrific.
It’s so fun to watch because there’s just something so electric, watching the two of you just playing off of each other. It’s so fun.
SMITH-CAMERON: Oh, good. That’s what it feels like.
Without spoilers and without telling me why, how would you describe Gerri’s mental state, by the end of Season 3?
SMITH-CAMERON: That’s hard to do without spoilers. There’s a little bit of a scary feeling, like it’s World War III. It pushes all the cards in the deck to the edge. There’s a strain on every relationship and all of the allegiances are questioned and it’s very dangerous status quo. There is no status quo at the end, without giving too much away.
Apparently Jesse Armstrong has said that this is a show that could go for just one more season or maybe two more seasons, but he doesn’t see it going for more than five seasons. Have you come to terms with the fact that you might only be playing this character for one more season?
SMITH-CAMERON: No. I will never be able to come to terms with that, but I do trust Jesse’s judgment about that. He knows what can be done and can’t be done. But I think we all feel like it’s just such a blessing. They’re such good characters, the situations are so good, and people seem to like it. It’s a dreamy job. So, no, I don’t want it to end.
It must be hard when obviously that’s out of your hands. You can only play the character for as long as they keep giving you scripts.
SMITH-CAMERON: Exactly. So, I hope he finds at least five seasons, but I don’t know. I have nothing but admiration for his judgment.
I feel like then they should just pick up with a Gerri’s spinoff.
SMITH-CAMERON: There you go. Just so as long as Jesse, Tony [Roche], Georgia [Pritchett], Lucy [Prebble], and all of the gang is still there.
If Gerri could do what she wanted without the Roy family hanging over her, what do you think that would be? What would satisfy her, in that way?
SMITH-CAMERON: I think she would like to run the company, in the event that she wouldn’t have treacherous competition from the Roys. I think she feels like she does run the company, in a secret way, by being resourceful and clever and cunning. Logan’s a wildcard and he has these flashes of genius and this great instinct for business. Having said that, I think she’s the only sensible one. The other guys may know when something sounds like a bad idea, but they’re not gonna say it because they’re such yes-men, so they’re not really trustworthy, in the same way she is.
She just doesn’t get the credit she deserves.
SMITH-CAMERON: You know what? I think her ego is pretty secure. I think she likes her temporary status as CEO. It’s a queen for a day kind of thing. I don’t think she glamorizes that job at all. It’s an unglamorous, dirty job, the whole things. World business is seamy, so I don’t think she glamorizes that. If you’re well-paid and you still are able to do substantive work that you’re good at, and it’s just a matter of a title, what does that amount to?
Succession airs on Sunday nights on HBO and is available to stream at HBO Max.