Opening this weekend, in limited release, is director John Curran’s Chappaquiddick. The film is based on the true story of the Chappaquiddick incident where Ted Kennedy (Jason Clarke) was in a car accident with Mary Jo Kopechne (Kate Mara), and the ensuing cover-up that created more questions than answers. The film dives into Kennedy wrestling with his desire to tell the truth and his need to uphold his family’s storied legacy and political ambitions. Keep in mind; the incident happened during a point in time where he was mulling over a potential run for the White House a year after the death of his brother Bobby Kennedy. Loaded with great performances and a smart script, the film does so much right including not painting Kennedy as a saint and showing the lengths to which patriarch Joseph Kennedy (Bruce Dern) would go to get his family in the White House. Chappaquiddick also stars Ed Helms and Jim Gaffigan. For more on the film, you can read Matt Goldberg's review.

Last week I got to sit down with Jason Clarke for an exclusive interview. He talked about what he was surprised to learn about the story, how he though he made a huge mistake when the Chappaquiddick incident happened he also passed hugely important legislation in the Senate during his career, the incredible power of the Kennedy family, what it was like on set, and so much more. In addition, Clarke talked about getting to be part of Damien Chazelle’s next movie, First Man, where he plays Ed White Jr., who was the first man to walk in space.  And, finally, we talked about what the next Terminator movie would have been about after Terminator Genisys, had that been more of a hit. Check out what he had to say below.

Collider: How’re you doing today?

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JASON CLARKE: I’m good, man!

I have a bunch I want to ask you about. I’m going to throw you a question that I’ve wondered for a very long time and It’s not going to be what you’re expecting. I’m jumping backwards to Terminator. Did you ever know what the planned trilogy was? Did they ever say anything to you about what the overarching story would have been had it been a bigger hit? Or were they were going film by film?

CLARKE: No, they had an idea. What I remember was that second one was going to be about John’s journey after he was taken by Skynet...like going down to what he became; half machine, half man. That’s where the second one was going to start, and that’s about all I knew.

Well, it’s still more than I knew. (laughs)

CLARKE: It’s such a bummer we didn’t get to do that.

I really want to talk about this movie, but I remember that the original ending was different and that they ended up changing it because the ending leaked or something. But, I remember hearing the original ending and thought it was cooler than the one that it actually was.

CLARKE: Which one was it? I can’t remember. They changed so many things in that. They twist and changed, it was just like, ugh.

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Yeah, welcome to Hollywood.

CLARKE: Welcome to Hollywood. (laughs)

I’m from New England. I thought I knew this story, but I didn’t know everything. When you first were offered this story, how much did you know about Ted and how much did you know about the Kennedy's?

CLARKE: I thought I knew quite a bit. I prided myself on being reasonably educated and having an understanding of 20th century history, and I’ve done Brotherhood in Rhode Island, so I’ve met Ted. You know, doing research I was surprised at how much I didn’t know. When I read the script, I was very angry, very- I felt like, oh my god, this happened? Then you go, c’mon, this is not believable. She wasn’t still alive in the car, that must be a device. He didn’t really wear a neck brace, c’mon. Is that just for a bit of a laugh in there or something. Then you go, this is actually true. There’s a lot I had no idea about. I started researching it, and I read different books, and interviews, and articles from the time, and senatorial privilege- and you go, the writers have done their research, they’ve got their facts right here. There’s no made up things just for dramatic sake. Then, the things I learned about Ted- his life, his father, WWII ambassador- not just a bootlegging thing. Everyone goes, “Kennedy, racist bootlegger, he slept with what's her name." Are you kidding me? The guy did so much more than that. Even the racism thing is, you need to understand, you need to also go into what he did to get Jewish migrants out of Europe at that time, but couldn’t reach a deal with Churchill and FDR because they were using that to bring America into the war. Things are much more complicated and in depth than I ever realized. This story- there’s a lot going on in this world with this man, with this time, a year on from his brother being shot in the head in front of everybody- in front of the whole world.

Completely.

CLARKE: You didn’t think it could happen, yet it did.

Yeah. What people don’t realize is how much amazing work he did in the Senate after this stuff. He passed hugely important legislation.

CLARKE: Hugely important.

But he also...make no mistake. He fucked up.

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CLARKE: He walked away- well he committed a heinous act of walking away from a woman in a car. In playing it I assumed that he thought she was dead. You can understand, he can make that assumption for a while. But even still, he left her in the car, man. This woman worked on Bobby’s campaign; was a smart, passionate woman who believed in- Bobby’s campaign was the great liberal charge of the time. That was well before Barack and “Change We Can Believe In.” Bobby was going to change politics in the world, end the war, do a whole bunch of things. She was a believer in that. Here she is with the brother and he didn't mean for the accident to happen, but he didn’t what I think most people would do. What I hope most people would do- go and report it straightaway. Knock on the neighbor’s door and go, “Call the police! Call the police! Get somebody over here quickly.”

He also put himself in a bad situation. He’s with six women who are all under thirty and single, and from the get go that’s a bad situation.

CLARKE: It was a bad situation. We don’t go into the actual ins and outs of that. You can say, yeah, the facts are yes, his wife was at home pregnant. He’s in an island, partying in a house. We deliberately chose not to go into- do we want to- are they on the beach having sex, do we show some nudes? It was about the humanness and the intimacy of this man’s moral decision. You see enough to know that he knew this woman, that he was with this woman, that he cared about this woman- that she cared about him. They had a connection- whether that was anything physical or whether that was just their brother or whatever. There’s enough there to show- and then they went and walked away and left her.

Completely. You also the ins and outs of that power of that family.

CLARKE: Yeah. Deep. Deep.

There’s a great scene where you walk into that room with everyone and you’re like, oh this is-

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CLARKE: The Cuban Missile Team. (laughs)

I can take care of anything.

CLARKE: Yeah, well you know the smartest minds- well even they almost managed to fuck it up. You know what I mean? (laughs) Oh my god. It’s absolutely. You prescribed him what? If he's taking that he can kill a patient- Oh Christ, did nobody talk to a doctor?”You think, how the fuck did they get away with it?

What’s interesting about this is when you have a script like that, that’s based on historical events, and you’re trying to be accurate to the time. Do you sort of go on set knowing things are really not going to change on set because it’s so historically accurate?

CLARKE: How do you mean?

Sometimes with a movie, for example Terminator, things are going to change a lot.

CLARKE: Oh, on set, yeah.

With this, you’re basing it on reality and historical events. It’s not really going to- or did it change at all?

CLARKE: No, it didn’t really. John and I had some very heated discussions about how to play certain moments. Very heated discussions. Yeah, because you have to follow this man who commits this act, this crime, very early on and you’ve got to stay with him for another hour and a half. John was very particular about how to portray certain beats and moments. The only thing that really really changed was- one of the cuts that I wasn’t really happy with was- was part of the kite-flying scene between Ed and I, where he says, “So, Ted, do you think you’ve made the right decision?” The conversation is about other things, about life and being a brother and all of that. Ted says, “Ask me in a week.” You know, that’s the political side of Ted. He always knows, it’s not today or tomorrow, a week is when it comes down. The public opinion. That’s the politician in Ted. John cut that because he wanted to hold in a two- to make it work he would have had to cut it to a single, so I got it. Yeah, that’s one of the benefits- you hope if you shoot it right they’re not going to chop it and change it in the edit and mess with your plotting of your character and your journey. On these bigger films, that can just happen. You go, “What happened to the- but that- I did-”

I have this conversation with every filmmaker in every movie- the editing process. Ultimately, that’s the final rewrite and for actors, it’s not a play- you’re hoping that what you- you know because what if they use the third take instead of the seventh and you hated the third take.

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CLARKE: That can be down to quality, but the bigger one is when they just change- you’ve done this scene and this thing because of that and now that’s gone so now I’m looking like a clown here because you just cut out that. You’ve stitched it together- it’s like c’mon, man. That’s just the way it goes- they do lots of big things.

The greatest thing is when a director says, “Yeah, my first cut, my assembly cut was three and a half hours. You know, the one I was really happy with and now it’s 2:20.” There’s 30 minutes missing, or whatever it is. That shit alters a movie.

CLARKE: It does. It alters your character- you’re going to look like a clown.

I’m going to run out of time with you but I have to talk about something that I’m dying to see which is First Man. Damien Chazelle put together a phenomenal cast; he’s on a bit of a roll. With a project like that, is it pretty much the agent tells you Damien wants to meet with you and you’re just like, “Yeah, sounds great.”

CLARKE: That was the first call I got. I think after Ryan I was the first guy cast. I was the first guy they reached out to. It took us a while to reach a deal, but I was the first person he reached out to. We sat down we had dinner and I was like, of course, Damien Chazelle- I had just watched both of his films and I loved them. When you meet a young artist like that who’s just on fire inside, in some kind of way. Damien’s a very calm- you just sense it with him when you see him work. He is, he’s just on fire. He’s just blazing with what he wants and where he wants it and how. He just ran me through the story and I said, “That’s a film I’m going to want to see myself.” I think the landing on the moon is one of the great stories of humanity. That is one of the greatest achievements I think we’ve ever, ever made. It’s incredible. I thought, no matter when this comes out the world, as a viewer- I loved that about La La Land. It was a great film to see. Even though it was a bittersweet ending- the life he could have had. There’s something about- that just fills you, at the two movies I’ve seen. You just go wow, that’s reaffirming for me.

The thing that I find so impressive about his work is that he is a filmmaker and an entertainer. It’s were artistry and movies meet. Not every movie has great filmmaking.

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CLARKE: He knows how to shoot big and grand. He knows how to make a movie.

That’s what I'm curious about with...

CLARKE: You’ve got to wait to see this man, yeah. You’re not going to be disappointed.

So, for people who don’t know, who do you play in it?

CLARKE: I play Ed White Jr., who was the first American to walk in space. When we went down to NASA I got a lot of love because on NASA’s evolution he was a pivotal man. The put him out of space ship, into space. He was also one of Neil’s best friends and neighbor when they were in the training program. He was probably going to be the first man on the moon, along with Gus Grissom, but they burnt up in Apollo 1 the test. That would have been the Apollo 1, the first one to go in the Saturn. They burnt up in a plugs out test and died tragically. All of the guys at NASA, I met a lot of them, have still never forgiven themselves for one of the great NASA mess ups. Which set their tone for- from now on we will never make a mistake like that again.

It’s such an amazing story, but I can’t even imagine filming stuff like that. That’s another historical thing.

CLARKE: He finds a way to film it. All of Damien’s films- his POV’s, perspective, his camera, is just fascinating. You watch where he puts his camera, or you watch how he moves his camera, and I think La La Land, his whole film was steady cam. Literally, the whole film was steady cam. When he’s on a crane, the operators coming down off the crane, still on the same steady cam. There’s no camera up there alone. No, it’s the operator. It just gave a fluidity. On this one, he’s got a different- you’ll see it. I’ve never seen so many actors just checking out his monitor. Not to watch performance, but to watch what he’s after.

Sure.

CLARKE: You see what he’s after and you go, holy moly.

Chappaquiddick opens in theaters this weekend and First Man opens October 12th, 2018.

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