Now streaming on Netflix is director David Wain’s great new movie, A Futile and Stupid Gesture. The film chronicles the life and career of National Lampoon co-founder Doug Kenney (played by Will Forte) and doesn’t gloss over his troubled life. If you don’t know Doug’s name, he co-founded National Lampoon with fellow Harvard students Henry Beard and Robert Hoffman and helped grow it from a local college paper to a hugely successful nationwide brand. He also worked as a writer in Hollywood on films like National Lampoon’s Animal House and Caddyshack. The film also stars Domhnall GleesonJoel McHaleEmmy Rossum, Martin Mull, Natasha Lyonne, Thomas Lennon, Joe Lo TruglioSeth GreenMatt Lucas, and many other faces you’ll recognize. For more on the very funny film, you can read Matt Goldberg’s review.

Recently, I got to sit down with Joel McHale and Emmy Rossum for an exclusive interview. While I expected the interview to be like the hundreds I’ve done before, what you need to know about Joel McHale is that he’s extremely adept at throwing out non-sequiturs and random throwaway jokes that can cause everyone to laugh and forget what they were talking about. Trust me, as you read the transcript below you’ll see what I’m talking about. When we did manage to stay on topic, they talked about the great cast, their memories of National Lampoon, how Emmy Rossum got cast at the last minute, Mr. Robot, memorable moments from filming, what it was like for McHale to play Chevy Chase after working with him on Community, the way they like to work on set, and so much more. Plus, they each talked about future projects like Brian Henson’s The Happytime Murders and Hans Petter Moland’s Hard Powder.

Check out what Joel McHale and Emmy Rossum had to say below.

We’re going to get into why you guys are talking to me, but I have to ask...what is it like being part of a Sundance film (Assassination Nation) that sells for $10 million?

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Image via Netflix

EMMY ROSSUM: It feels great! [laughs]

MCHALE: Emmy you are not in it.

ROSSUM: Shit. [laughs]

MCHALE: Here’s the thing, this is my first Sundance and that was the first movie I was ever in at Sundance, so I know no difference and if this one doesn’t sell for $10 million, then I’ll be disappointed. Right because I don’t… that was the first one.

ROSSUM: Except for… it’s already on Netflix.

MCHALE: Oh shit. So, that’s right. We don’t need to sell it.

It’s only going to 170 countries.

MCHALE & ROSSUM: Yeah… [laughs]

MCHALE: I’m thrilled, and I’m thrilled for Sam Levinson who poured his life and wrote that movie and directed the hell out of it for very low budget and made it look like it was $35 Million dollars and he put together an amazing cast. It’s a wonderfully uncomfortable and very entertaining movie that I have a tiny little part in.

Speaking of wonderful casts, this is a murderers row of talent in this movie.

ROSSUM: What a lovely segway- interns take note.

MCHALE: That was the best segway. [claps] [To interns] Don’t ever do anything… you got that.

ROSSUM: That’s what you do.

MCHALE: That’s the bar.

ROSSUM: Speaking of how wonderful you are- let’s talk some more about you.

[laughs]

MCHALE: [To Interns] Where are you guys from?

INTERN 1: New York.

INTERN 2: North Carolina.

MCHALE: Alright.

ROSSUM: But more about us.

[laughs]

MCHALE: Back to the people in the movies.

[laughs]

First of all-

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Image via Netflix

MCHALE: You like Shameless?

It’s a garbage show. It’s on Showtime right?

ROSSUM: Garbage show. Thank you.

MCHALE: She’s directed two episodes.

I have that note. I did my reconnaissance.

MCHALE: Damn.

ROSSUM: We’re going to spend this whole time fucking up this interview.

MCHALE: Get this man a thumb ring. Can we get this man a thumb ring?

I got news for you, this is only affecting your interview. I’m teasing, but there is Freudian bit of that. I do need to-

ROSSUM: Do the interview.

MCHALE: Oh and Freud hasn’t been debunked at all.

No, he’s accurate to the nth degree.

ROSSUM: I love the cast of this film.

[laughs]

I’m trying.

MCHALE: She brought it back. He did not. Point for her.

ROSSUM: I think it’s incredible. I actually found it a little bit intimidating to be with all these people that have been doing comedy with a big C for 30 years- who’ve been doing sketch comedy, UCB, and improv. That’s not my particular skill set. You want me to use sense memories to cry about dead babies, I can do it all day long.

MCHALE: It was weird when she started doing that in this movie though.

[laughs]

ROSSUM: So yeah, it was incredibly fun.

MCHALE: And now I’ll talk about Emmy and Domhnall [Gleeson]. These jerks who are incredibly good dramatic actors came in and were incredibly funny.

ROSSUM: Phony?

MCHALE: Funny!

No- I heard phony as well.

ROSSUM: I heard phony! [laughs]

MCHALE: They were phony. You know the way she looks and he looks and they’re funny! Bunch of assholes.

I actually agree with that. That’s the most honest thing you’ve said all day.

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Image via Netflix

MCHALE: How do you know? You haven’t been here all day.

I’ve been- there’s a listening device under the couch.

MCHALE: Oh, okay.

ROSSUM: Oh, that’s terrifying.

MCHALE: Okay, that makes sense.

You should always be checking for bugs.

MCHALE: Just like Trump’s offices.

You got that right. I really enjoyed this movie. I grew up watching Animal House and Caddyshack. For both of you- what’s your first memory of National Lampoon? Did you see one of the movies first or read the magazine?

ROSSUM: I definitely had seen Caddyshack, I had not seen Animal House. I didn’t know a lot about National Lampoon except that it was kind of this button pushing, slightly inappropriate magazine that I probably shouldn’t read. When I was a kid, that’s what I knew. Then I learned all about Doug Kenney, when David Wayne emailed my then fiance Sam to ask me to be in the movie about two weeks before we started shooting. They only needed me for 6 days. I said of course, I want to play with David Wain because he has that kind of absurdist humor and I like things that terrify me. Being amidst people that are funny is intimidating, exciting, and fun.

I want to hear your answer, but I want to point out that the way she got in this movie is her fiance. That’s how she was contacted.

MCHALE: Oh, really? He was like-

ROSSUM: “Hey Sam, I want Emmy to do this part in this movie. Can I send it to her? Can I send it to you to send to her?” So many things come through friends, specially if you want to get to someone really quick and you’re shooting in two weeks you can’t wait for their agent’s assistant assistant to read it and then a week later send it to the agent, who doesn’t read it for a week and then you had to cast someone else because you didn’t even read the thing.

MCHALE: I’m going to use this for every time I don’t get a role.

[laughs]

MCHALE: When I met David Wain, we had never met, and he goes, “Why don’t we know each other?” Because we all have the same friends. I was like, “I avoided you.” I knew everybody in the cast practically except for Jon Daly and David Wain. [To ROSSUM] Your story is better. Don’t you think?

ROSSUM: No.

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Image via Netflix

MCHALE: When did you get married?

ROSSUM: 7 months ago.

MCHALE: 7 months ago.

[laughs]

[To MCHALE] And your favorite show is Mr. Robot. That’s amazing.

MCHALE: I like Mr. Robot.

ROSSUM: Do you?

MCHALE: [Stuttering] I really, uh..

ROSSUM: You’ve seen the pilot and you like the pilot.

[laughs]

MCHALE: No, I have not seen a single frame.

ROSSUM: Got it.

MCHALE: I don’t watch anything.

ROSSUM: So you haven’t seen it?

MCHALE: No.

ROSSUM: Wow, that’s incredible.

MCHALE: I’m sorry. Ask me about any other TV show.

I’m going to tell you a secret, her husband is talented. Straight up.

MCHALE: I know.

ROSSUM: He’s like the most talented person not in this room.

MCHALE: I love the story about how Mr. Robot, how NBC is like..nah. Right?

ROSSUM: What?

MCHALE: Didn’t NBC pass and then it went to USA?

I actually don’t  know how it all came about.

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Image via Netflix

MCHALE: I don’t know.

By the way this is so on a fucking tangent.

MCHALE: I thought, I really thought- Maybe I’m completely wrong. Much like when NBC passed on House. Then Fox said, we’d love...

ROSSUM: I don’t even think they went to NBC.

I actually think that a lot of networks pass on stuff and then it goes to other places. That’s definitely true. I don’t know the trajectory of all the shows, though.

ROSSUM: It’s a much, much longer conversation. Sam’s the one to tell that story.

MCHALE: Alright. Can you call him up? [laughs] We need to get to the bottom of this.

I gotta tell you the real problem with interviewing him- and he did it with Assassination Nation- is that no matter what you say, he has a witty reply to everything. It is crazy.

MCHALE: She probably can say some witty replies, and she's using her ring instead of her middle finger to scratch her eye.

[laughs]

ROSSUM: Do you have a question?

I do have a question. He did not answer what his first memory of National Lampoon was.

MCHALE: Oh, I think it’s John Belushi screaming “food fight.” Of all the canon of National Lampoon, that, as a child, I was like, “That man, is part of our lives somehow, and he screams that thing.” Then the yearbook. I never really got the magazine other than, I knew about the dog with the gun to the dog’s head that says, “buy this magazine or we’ll shoot this dog.” I just remember the yearbook would get passed around in 4th, 3rd grade. That was in 1956. So that was my earliest memory. Then of course, when Caddyshack came out- it is now the most popular sports film or sporting film of all time.

It had negative reviews when it came out. People did not like it, it’s crazy. I have to ask you about working with Will Forte. I love him. He’s so talented, so funny. What is it like doing bits with him? There’s a great scene with the check- everyone has heard that story. What’s it like?

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Image via Netflix

ROSSUM: Well, I do some funny stuff in the movie but I am also there to kind of add some depth and grounding to the more darker areas in his personal life. He would do this thing before we would do romantic scenes where he would whisper like, “I just farted.” [laughs] He just loved to make very immature jokes, that would just catch me off guard. I think he just does that. It would really open me up in this weird way, and would make me not overthink what I was about to do. I found being around him- I love everything that he’s done, from Nebraska to all the funny stuff that he does. It was great working with him and he made me feel like I belonged there.

For each of you... memorable moments from filming?

ROSSUM: Food fight. Easy.

MCHALE: I remember the last shot where we’re all singing- the singing part didn’t make it in- but we’re all supposed to be, obviously mourning. Then, I don’t know how you did that but, the amount of water that came out of Emmy’s eyes was alarming. [laughs]

ROSSUM: Martin Mull sings a song at the end of the movie, and they actually filmed us sitting in a big circle around him, while he was singing it. It was supposed to be over the credits but they just ended up using the song. I was so incredibly moved by his singing that I just- I had this big smile on my face and I just was sobbing. Ugly crying.

MCHALE: It was not ugly crying.

ROSSUM: It was like [imitates crying].

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Image via Netflix

MCHALE: Jon Daly had ugly crying.

ROSSUM: Everyone was pretty moved by it. It was great. The other memorable thing for me was Will biting the glass. Which was just- Doug Kenney did that. That was a thing he did. Chewing glass to get a laugh. That’s the first time that they meet, was just fascinating to me. He’d just keep doing the bit and be like, “oh my god!” and even after we cut I would be concerned he was- but he was just doing a bit on me.

MCHALE: I met Will years ago, and I did not know him and I was with my dad at the White House Correspondents Dinner. I was there with a guest and my dad. Will talked to my dad for about 25 minutes and my dad was like, “who’s that guy?” and I’m like, “he’s on SNL, and he’s super famous.” Everytime I would see Will, he’s like, “how’s Jack? How’s Laurie?, I gotta call them when I’m up in Seattle.” I was like, I know this is a bit probably, but it doesn’t seem like a bit.

ROSSUM: He’s the nicest guy in the whole world. It’s alarming.

MCHALE: There’s a scene in the movie where he and I are playing tennis, and Will and I both were so concerned that we would look shitty playing tennis, that we played super hard to make sure that… It’s not like this memorable great acting moment. We were like, we’re not going to look like fucking idiots out here, so let’s play tennis well, you got it? And we’d all agree, it was like Nadal and Djokovic.

Absolutely, yes. It was very believable.

ROSSUM: I always thought it was more like Venus and Serena.

[laughs]

I have to ask you about doing the pratfalls and playing Chevy. It’s full circle- you playing him. How is it do that stuff? You’re going for it.

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Image via NBC

MCHALE: Well, if I didn’t it would look stupid and Chevy hurt himself a lot doing pratfalls. He injured his back for life, live on television when he fell down over a railing as the waiter on to his back. When I studied the way he did it, he is still trying to accomplish- like if he is grabbing a cup of coffee, he will knock down 1,000 things to get to that cup of coffee. He’s not just throwing shit around, he's got a mission. So, that is the thing I took away. In that scene where I am trying to pour them a drink- it’s like just try and pour the drink, just do it.

ROSSUM: It’s not just silly, it’s just incompetent.

MCHALE: Yes, that’s it. He’s still trying to get shit done.

ROSSUM: He just can’t.

As an actor you can rehearse a lot of stuff at home. How do you rehearse doing that stuff and not make a huge mess at home?

MCHALE: Well, I didn’t rehearse at home because my wife would have thrown me out and my kids would have been like, “this is okay to do?” Then, they would do it. I joke at my house. I do say this thing in my house, “I can do whatever I want,” when someone’s asking me something, and my wife is always like, “Ugh.” Now my kids say it back to me. So then I go, Oh I see, this is Richard the III right here. On a much smaller level.

Right. They actually learn from what you’re saying.

MCHALE: Yeah. So in the environment- like in Doug Kenney’s house- I was like okay, I’ll use this and hope it works.

I ask this of all actors I talk to- some actors love the Clint Eastwood method of shooting rehearsal and the first take or two and that's it, and others love the Fincher method, 50 or 60 takes- as many as they can do. How do you like to work? And, as a director, how do you like to direct?

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Image via Showtime

ROSSUM: Well, having worked with Clint... [Brings mic closer] Having worked with Clint in Oscar Nominated Mystic River. I can say that even when you do that, actors are so concerned about the fact that they know the legend of no rehearsal that the actors get together on the weekends and rehearse so much before they get to set.

MCHALE: Really?

ROSSUM: Yes. There’s whole actors workshops that are happening at like the Radisson on a Sunday afternoon.

I’ve asked this question a lot and I have never heard this. This is finally the truth.

ROSSUM: They’re not being honest. I know that happened on Mystic. We did a lot of like-

MCHALE: Mystic Pizza

ROSSUM: Mystic Pizza, yup. When I’m Julia Roberts.

MCHALE: Matt Damon’s first film.

Is that true?

ROSSUM: Why do you believe anything he says?

I’m so sorry, you’re right.

ROSSUM: Don’t lean in. You just have to gloss-

MCHALE: Bernadette Peters first film. First iPhone ever appeared.

ROSSUM: So, in any case [laughs]. I don’t mind shooting the rehearsal. I think sometimes, especially with incredibly emotional things, sometimes the first time you do it for real, everything just pours out of you- and you’re glad to have it on film. I don’t like to over rehearse things. Sometimes rehearsal is necessary if there’s a danger element, or you need to figure out blocking, or they need to figure out where they’re putting lights. Sometimes there’s just a practicality to it. As a director, I like to rehearse.

What’s the most takes you’ve done as a director?

ROSSUM: I’ve only done TV. They don’t allot you that much time.

Sometimes there is a shot you have to get. I’m just joking around.

MCHALE: When you were directing TV.

I direct a lot of TV- I do it on the side.

ROSSUM: If there is a one-er I probably did it eight or nine times. But not more than that.

[To MCHALE] How do you typically like to work?

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Image via NBC

MCHALE: I like getting that first one. I’d rather say let's just see what happens on that first one if we shoot it. Again, I’m not in a ton of movies. When I work with Steven Soderbergh...Thank you! [laughs] If we do more than two takes, something was wrong. He was so happy to move on. He wanted that first thing. On Community, Joe Russo and Anthony Russo- we did it a million times. They would just go cut- do it again, faster. Action. We just said the lines as fast as we could because Dan wrote so much dialogue for 22 minutes so we would zip it out as fast as we can. When I would watch it back, I was like, “that's much better."

I saw them work on set. I did a set visit when they were filming and saw them do that. Watching the scene again and again. Tweaking it and tweaking it to get it right.

MCHALE: Yeah. They’d say, “cut, faster, cut faster.” Justin Lin also did a zillion takes which I found endlessly fun.

One more question. What will I ask you guys?

MCHALE: As you look through your organized notes.

I am going to ask both of you- you got to recently work with Liam Neeson. What was it about that project that made you say yes, because obviously you have limited time with [Shameless]. I also want to know about Happytime Murders.

ROSSUM: Hard Powder as it’s currently titled, I don’t know if that will be the eventual title, is based on a European film made by the director Hans Petter Moland. Hans Petter- that’s Hans Peter but with a Norwegian Accent.

MCHALE: Hans Domhnall.

ROSSUM: Hans Petter was going to make the movie in English. My character didn’t exist in the original movie. They added a character where one didn’t exist in the police department in the original movie. I found it to be incredibly violent and incredibly funny. It was an interesting mix and I wanted to work with that filmmaker. I liked working with Liam as well.

MCHALE: The same filmmaker made both movies.

ROSSUM: Both films.

That’s very unusual.

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Image via Netflix

MCHALE: Your character didn’t exist in the other film.

ROSSUM: Kinda like Haneke did Funny Games twice. It’s so funny! Just like that.

[laughs]

MCHALE: How violent is it?

ROSSUM: I don’t know. I haven’t seen the finished product but it’s pretty violent.

MCHALE: And Liam Neeson?

ROSSUM: Pretty Violent.

MCHALE: But he’s dreamy?

ROSSUM: I mean, I play a cop who’s trying to get him on something- so, no. That was not my experience.

MCHALE: I loved him in Krull.

ROSSUM: What?

Early 80’s.

MCHALE: Early 80s. You were not alive. That doesn’t mean- look, you weren’t alive for National Lampoon!

ROSSUM: I didn’t see that either.

MCHALE: Krull, it’s time for a remake. Right?

ROSSUM: Happy Times, were you saying?

Happytime Murders.

MCHALE: Are we trying to move this on?

ROSSUM: I’m trying to move back to the question.

MCHALE: Yes, Happytime Murders, which is a Melissa McCarthy vehicle. It’s a world where puppets and human beings exist in the same world.

ROSSUM: Kind of like Bright but with puppets.

MCHALE: Yeah. This is a comedy. But it’s very adult. Very dirty.

I heard it’s like a hard R.

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MCHALE: It is a hard R. There is a puppet that ejaculates.

ROSSUM: What?

Is this a Joel joke or an actual, real thing?

MCHALE: I’m not sure if I’m allowed- yes, it is a real thing in the movie.

ROSSUM: Are you allowed to say that publicly?

MCHALE: I don’t know.

Say something that’s allowed to be said.

MCHALE: The Henson Company made it and so the puppetry and the direction were great. Obviously Melissa McCarthy is insanely funny, and Ben Falcone was there, her husband, who is also insanely funny. I play- and you’re not going to believe this- an asshole. [laughs] I know it seems impossible that I could, but it was thrilling. Jim Henson’s son, [Brian] who is now older directed it. He’s amazing.

ROSSUM: You’re such a nice person.

MCHALE: No, I am not!

ROSSUM: Why do you think you always get cast as an asshole?

MCHALE: Because you’ve seen how I’ve operated.

ROSSUM: No.

MCHALE: Yes. It continues my streak of being a dick.

On that note...congratulations on this film. It's great.

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Image via Netflix
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Image via Netflix