Junkie XL, also known as Tom Holkenborg, has taken a curious path to composing the scores for some of today’s biggest films. The Dutch DJ, producer, and engineer first broke out as an electronic musician, crafting a massive worldwide hit with 2002’s “A Little Less Conversation.” He eventually started dipping his toe into the film composing world, collaborating with Hans Zimmer on films like The Dark Knight Rises and Inception while also doing his own solo work on movies ranging from DOA: Dead or Alive to 300: Rise of an Empire and Divergent.

Holkenborg is currently writing the scores for two of 2017’s biggest films, Justice League and The Dark Tower, coming off his astounding work on Mad Max: Fury Road and a diverse range of compositions including Black Mass, Deadpool, and co-composing Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice. In short, Junkie XL is the composer behind some of the biggest blockbusters around, bringing his own signature style to each, but through it all he’s maintained a passion for sharing knowledge and opening the process up to burgeoning artists and fans alike through his YouTube series Studio Time with Junkie XL.

Season 2 of Studio Time is currently underway, in which Holkenborg opens his studio up to viewers for free and explains his process. Episodes focus on different aspects like composing for strings, drum computers, and more. He also films short segments where he answers fan questions like what it’s like working with directors and why all films don’t have memorable themes.

With Season 2 now airing, I was able to hop on the phone with Holkenborg to talk about the inspiration behind Studio Time, his focus in Season 2, and his candid interaction with fans. We also discussed his process working with George Miller on Mad Max: Fury Road when Miller initially didn’t want score at all, his working relationship with Zack Snyder on Justice League, why he can’t wait for fans to see The Dark Tower, his thoughts on the current state of the film music industry, and advice he has for those looking to break into the business. It’s a fascinating, wide-ranging chat that I think fans of film music in general will enjoy.

Check it out below, and click here to watch Studio Time with Junkie XL on YouTube.

So how did the idea for this Studio Time series first come about? 

JUNKIE XL: It had a little bit to do with my upbringing. The fact that I grew up in Holland and some other things that I’ve done. So for starters I grew up in Holland where education is practically free and my mom was a teacher, she taught young kids music theory and she also taught the flute. What she did is she had students that would pay her, it wasn’t much at the time but it was half an hour or an hourly rate, and then she had a couple of students in the beginning that had no money or came from low-income families and she would support that by giving those kids lessons for free. That became more frequent over the years and that really became a thing, so for me that was very normal in my upbringing and my surroundings. Now cut to 2003 when I just moved to L.A. and I was approached by the biggest music university in Holland called ArtEZ to start a student program for film scoring and for video games, electronic music in the broadest scenes of the word. So we started compiling a four-year study there and it became a very successful study—the year I left was 2014, 2015, so I did that for almost 12 years, 10 years. We started with nothing but when I left we had like 100 students a year and people came from China, Scandinavia, Germany, they came from everywhere. So it was very satisfying to see that.

So let’s now cut to 2016 when the first season of Studio Time came out. After leaving that university I was like, “I wanna do something,” and I didn’t know quite what. At a certain time the idea came to me to do really proper tutorials for film students and people who are interested in general in how I work, and therefore teaching a little bit about how this industry works, how it works in general to work with the industry, with a director, with film studios. The idea was, based on my experience in Holland, to do it for free and to get a lot of content out there. So this season we’re talking about 12-14 hours of content, which is huge if you can make stuff available like that for free. The first season was a lower budget and we didn’t quite know what we were doing and we got a lot of feedback from fans and I did a couple of Facebook Lives so people could ask me questions, and we compiled all that info and we put it to use by really figuring out what we could do better for Studio Time 2. Already now we’re in Episode 4 coming up, we already get like a lot of questions and requests. So this is a great way to do something online which is for free, which is educational in nature, it’s a real labor of love, and with people that watch it giving feedback so we’re constantly able to shape this into something better.

Well it’s really fantastic, and that was one of my questions, what are you planning on touching on in Season 2 that you didn’t get to in Season 1?

JUNKIE XL: Well Season 1 is not really structured, it was more like, “Okay let’s set up the camera guys and let’s roll, action!” It was barely prepped and we recorded for two days and that was that. This time around we actually planned the episodes beforehand. We checked through the hundreds and hundreds of requests from fans like “Can you do this? Can you tell me a little bit more about that?” A lot of fans from the first season were very interested in the string writing, so this year I would almost say we have two and a half, three episodes touching on string writing. A lot of people asked questions about the gear that I have and how I use it and can you please make good recorded sounds with it instead of doing it with your iPhone? So there are a lot of tutorials that go about all the synths that I have and guitars and basses and guitar pedals and drum kits and everything that I have, and we just go through it one by one. What you can do with them, what was great about it back in the day, what’s still useful today, and we show all these things back to back.

You have a really great and open interaction with fans, and this seems to be an extension of that especially with your “Ask Me Anything” segments. Is that kind of borne out of you wishing some of your heroes were as open and available when you were coming up? 

JUNKIE XL: Well don’t we all? And the thing is, if you go back to the ancient cultures, the old Roman cultures, the old Greeks, the old Chinese, sharing of information was the basis for creating a really great culture, and we see that now a lot of it is freezing up. Now people see it as something unique when somebody like Elon Musk makes everything available that he figured out himself. Now that is a rarity whereas thousands of years ago, that would be the norm.

That’s absolutely true. And you’ve done a lot of interesting work over the years and I’m curious, as a film music nerd myself, what are your thoughts on the state of the film music industry right now? What’s happening in the film scoring world that excites you, or maybe disappoints you?

JUNKIE XL: Well that’s a really broad question. I mean the industry is changing rapidly, and it’s somewhat comparable to what happened to the record and CD industry in the 80s, going into the 90s and early 2000s. You see that the amount of films being made is also being shifted, there’s a great alternative scene at this point. The commercial scene has its ups and downs when it comes to the big blockbuster films, and musically that’s the same thing. So you see a lot of new people entering this field that come from completely different backgrounds and are a horror story to any film composer, which are people like me or Mica Levi from England or Johann Johannsson from Iceland. There’s a bunch of these really new people entering this world, which I think is very exciting but none of these people, like myself, are really like the traditional pencil and paper film scoring guys. We just look at this from a completely different angle, and sometimes sound design is gonna be the score. If you look at that great film that Johann Johannsson did, Sicario, with that movie a lot of traditional film scoring fans would look at that film and not even consider it music, because it’s just what it is. But I think it’s fantastic that we’re now entering this stage of film scoring where a lot of these things are welcomed and it’s possible now. So I find it a really thrilling time period if you ask me, but the competition has gotten more fierce. I speak with a lot of not only young kids but also people that are more experienced where they’re scratching their head, “How do I get work? How do I even get considered for a job?” Also hopefully these tutorials help out to—I mean I can only speak from my experience and I share that information with the people that watch it, and hopefully it’s of any use to them.

I think you’re absolutely right, I think what Johann and Mica are doing with blurring the lines between score and sound design is tremendous and it only serves to further immerse the viewer into the story and the mind of the character. Has there been a score recently that blew you away or made you want to step up your game?

JUNKIE XL: Actually I’ve been really behind in watching stuff that’s been coming out over the last year almost. It’s been so insanely busy that when I’ve got some moments to breathe I just love to not listen or watch anything. Just put on a couple of candles and drink a good glass of wine and chill out (laughs).

Totally understood. I wanted to go back a bit and ask about Mad Max if you don’t mind. I think your score for that movie is phenomenal, as is the film itself. I understand when you came onto that movie George Miller initially wanted no music, and had cut the film that way. How did you then go about writing your score for the film, and what were your conversations with George like? 

JUNKIE XL: Well I did this presentation for him, he was so open-minded. Yes he did say, “We’ve got the drummers on the back of the truck, we’ve got the guitar player, and we’ve got the sound of the engine, that should be enough.” And I did this presentation for him where I came up with all these ideas that I had based on pieces of music I made myself over the past 20 years or whatever it was. And I laid out the plan for him and he was very open-minded and he was like, “Wow that’s interesting. Well I don’t want to decide on anything yet but let’s try all these things,” and I did and eventually we ended up with wall-to-wall score. It’s very funny, that’s typical George—he might have a plan, but he adapts immediately when something is presented to him that he likes better, and so that’s why we ended up with so much music in that film.

It’s absolutely amazing and I think the music is integral to that film. Obviously the movie’s a masterpiece and I think it would probably be great without music, but that score is essentially another character in that film.

JUNKIE XL: Well thanks for that compliment, but yes that was the intention. The intention was that the music would be the third character besides Furiosa and Mad Max. But you can only do that when you have a strong director at the helm like George Miller, because he will then decide how it’s going to work. You can make all the great music that you want, but if it’s buried in sound effects nobody will ever hear it. So it takes a very strong approach from a director to say, “No the sound effects need to go for this whole scene and this is all music,” and then another part in the movie it’s like, “Okay this should be all sound effects so the music will play second-fiddle in this scene.” So those decisions are very important.

Absolutely. Well I know you’ve been busy and I know you can’t go into specifics on Justice League, but I’m curious what it was like scoring this massive superhero movie without Hans. I know you definitely have experience working solo on big films, but Justice League is a huge undertaking. 

JUNKIE XL: It’s a massive undertaking. And I can’t say anything about Justice League specifically, but I’ll tell you this, and this was exactly the same experience that Hans and I had when we did work together on Man of Steel and Batman v Superman: It’s like when you see a movie like that, these iconic superhero movies, some of them have a 60 to 80 year legacy, multiple composers had a go at their themes, multiple filmmakers did their version of these characters—it’s very scary. You watch a movie and it’s like, “Holy shit, now I have to come up with something.” You’ve got sweaty hands and you’re nervous, and you talk about it over and over again—and I have exactly that relationship with Zack Snyder—and then Zack said, ”There’s only one thing you can do, and that is embrace this character as if it’s your own, keep it close to your musical soul, and just do whatever you feel is the right thing to do for this character.” That’s the only thing we can do. That’s what all these great directors did back in the day, and that’s what all these great composers did back in the day. It makes no sense for me to do extensive quoting of Hans’ score of the really amazing Batmans. It makes no sense for me to quote Superman from John Williams. Because all fantastic composers, they all did the same thing, they did something that was close to their heart, and I have to do exactly the same thing on this movie.

How far along are you on the score for that? Have you recorded anything yet? 

JUNKIE XL: I’m not at liberty to say anything (laughs). Not even that. If you call me back first week of November then I can talk all you want about it (laughs).

I imagine Batman v Superman is its own herculean undertaking, and obviously this is a big one, but now you have that established relationship with Zack. Did that make it a bit easier going into this? 

JUNKIE XL: You know this is Movie Number 4 that I’m doing with Zack, so you build a friendship and it’s built on trust and loyalty. You know how to challenge each other, you know what to expect on the other side, and it’s this really open, amazing dialogue about where to take this franchise.

Well and you’re not only doing Justice League you’re doing The Dark Tower, which is a curious one because it’s this sci-fi/fantasy mix based on this beloved book series from a very famous author. Is there anything you can tease people about that one?

JUNKIE XL: If I say too much I will hear like a stealth bomber approaching my house to take me out. What I can say is I’m so happy I’m doing this movie because I can show off a vocabulary musically that many people don’t know of me. That’s why I’m so happy with this movie. That’s why I was so happy with Mad Max, but in the same year I was so happy to do Black Mass, which was like a complete 180 degree faceturn from the other movie. Or Deadpool, which is all about fun and tongue in cheek. So it’s great to be able to do all these different things and yet maintain a style in all this.

Yeah you have kind of run the gamut; I mean you vacillate between films like Mad Max and Brimstone. Is there a certain genre or kind of film or even franchise that you’re itching to take a stab at?

JUNKIE XL: Well since my career is young I can say that. If you would ask some older film composers they would say, “Oh but I pretty much did everything.” For me, a lot of things are new and therefore it’s so fresh. I would love to do a kick-ass sci-fi movie, a kick-ass serious drama, a kick-ass animated film. So I’m open to anything.

Coming from your background, which is unique in the film composing world, I was curious who were some of the film composers who you looked up to coming up?

JUNKIE XL: I mean obviously Ennio Morricone and Bernard Hermann and Nino Rota, I mean those were the three. When I was really young I remember seeing those films and really got hit by the quality of music. Then I got a little older and then Star Wars and Indiana Jones came out and John Williams was important, then Blade Runner came out, Vangelis—I mean oh my God what a score is that? A groundbreaking approach to how you can score a movie like that. And then there were all these other movies coming out, some of them were one-offs that I really liked from a composer and other movies just really made me fall in love with the composer’s complete work. But funny enough, I don’t listen to film scores real often. I listen to a few that I really like, but I usually don’t listen to film music. I usually listen to classical music or electronic music or great records from the 60s, 70s, and 80s, just like random stuff. But to be honest I rarely listen to film scores.

Can you say what films you’re scoring next or are you pretty busy with Justice League and Dark Tower right now?

JUNKIE XL: I’m writing with Dark Tower and Justice League, but there will be an amazing movie coming up after this which you will find out probably in a month or so. But there’s a really great one coming up after this.

I know that this YouTube series is a great resource for aspiring film composers, but what advice would you give them today?

JUNKIE XL: I think the most important thing is—and that’s how I look at it, not when I was getting into film scoring but actually when I was building my artist career in my teen years, is just to do a lot of experimentation and try to figure out who you are as a person, musically. And listen to all kinds of different music. That would be my basic advice. And then secondly, when you do want to get into film scoring and have made sure you have the talent or you know it by ear or you educate yourself through books or you follow a study or whatever, and then when you’ve done that, you’ve turned 23, 24, 25, 26 and you still want to pursue this career, then I highly recommend getting an internship with a composer that you like or any composer. Interning with a composer that does this for a profession is the most valuable resource that you could have to really understand the things you need to know about this industry. How to talk to a director, the energy in the room, how meetings go, what to do with the picture, what to shift, how to create an arc from A to C for a film, how to listen to what a movie needs and at the same time the requirements of the studio and what they want to see. So these things are all very important and it’s so hard to learn that from books. You need to be part of a team with a composer, that way you build a network, you meet other assistants that work with the composer and people who used to work for him, you meet people from studios, you see how an orchestra’s recorded, you meet the players, you meet the conductor, you meet all these people and your network grows and grows. Then after years of doing that, you turn 30 or 35 and you’ve had all this experience, then it becomes time to really go out and just look for work on your own and most likely you’re ready for it. It’s never a guarantee that every assistant of a composer that works will turn into a working composer himself, but I would say that’s the most proven path of success.