From director Anders Thomas Jensen, one of Denmark’s most renowned filmmakers, the Danish dark action dramedy Riders of Justice follows Markus (Mads Mikkelsen), a man forced to return home from a recent deployment to care for his teenage daughter (Andrea Heick Gadeberg) after his wife is killed in a tragic train accident. When a survivor of the wreck shows up claiming foul play, Markus decides to find those responsible for turning his wife into a random casualty.

During this video interview with Collider, actor Mads Mikkelsen and filmmaker Anders Thomas Jensen talked about what they like about working together, why humor is important, their desire to collaborate again, and finding who this character would be. Mikkelsen also talked about why he wanted to be a part of the next Indiana Jones film, and taking on the role of Grindelwald in Fantastic Beasts 3, while Jensen talked about where is story ideas come from.

Watch the video above and/or read the transcript below.

Collider: I love that I didn’t know where this was going and I wasn’t even entirely sure exactly what genre it was, but the relationship dynamics are so different and interesting.

MADS MIKKELSEN: I agree.

ANDERS THOMAS JENSEN: I’m glad you liked it. That’s not always the case. There are two kinds of cinema – the ones where you get exactly what you expect and the ones where you are surprised. Both of them are totally fine, but I definitely like the latter, myself.

This film reunites the two of you again. What was your first experience like working and collaborating together, and how did it compare this time? Does it change the more you work with somebody?

MIKKELSEN: We’ve done five films together. I think it’s changed in the sense that we have changed and become older. The amount of enthusiasm and ideas and calling each other in the middle of the night has not changed. It’s pretty much the same. I do tend to feel quite young when I do films with Anders Thomas, and then really old when we wrap it up.

JENSEN: I totally agree with everything the man is saying. That is how it is. For me, I always get happy when I feel that I’m also nervous. As a screenwriter, I’m not always nervous, like I was when I was young. But when I’m directing films with Mads and the other guys, it’s a great feeling to actually care. When you’re there and you get nervous, you know you’re doing what you’re supposed to do.

Was the humor something that you always wanted in the story, or did the humorous surprise you? Why do you think humor is important when it comes to telling a story like this?

JENSEN: I feel the same way in life, I could never befriend a person who didn’t have humor. It’s unthinkable to me. Humor is part of life. When bad things happen and darkness descends, humor is, for me anyway, very much a part of surviving. When you tell these dark stories, of course, it has to be in there. Mads normally says that you could just keep it dramatic and a bit pretentious, but when you’re dealing with these great themes, I couldn’t imagine these themes coming across without a humor and a little sugar on the spoon. It would, first of all, perhaps be more banal, but also I don’t think I could watch it, no less write it or do it. Humor is everything for me.

MIKKELSEN: If you take it on face value and people are aware of their own issues, then there will be a lot of dialogue where we touch upon the difficulties of life. That can end up as not dramatic and banal. But if you stay with characters who are not one-dimensional at all, but they have some very strong characteristics, then you can have characters who are not asking these questions, but they’re just living in it. We, as an audience, get a chance to scream at them and say, “Look in the mirror!” I think that’s more dramatic sometimes.

Did it almost feel like you were shooting different movies, depending on the day, whether you were shooting this father-daughter relationship, or you were shooting these oddly very violent scenes, or you had this group of really eclectic guys together?

JENSEN: It always does. The first movie we did together, Flickering Lights, has every genre in there. Back then, I actually did that on purpose because I wasn’t sure if I would ever be allowed to make, another film, so I wanted to try to make at least one Western scene and one action scene. There are days where you think, “What the fuck are we doing? This will never stick together.” On this one, we had these totally naturalistic drama scenes, and then we had action. It’s fun to get up in the morning and see what we’d be doing that day.

Mads, I love that you can go from playing a character like Hannibal to doing a film like this, and then it was announced that you’re going to be a part of Indiana Jones. What was your reaction, when being a part of something as iconic as Indiana Jones came up as a possibility? Were you a fan of those films? Was it something you were excited about?

MIKKELSEN: “I’m very, very excited about it. Because I’m sitting here, I know for a fact that it was the film that made [Anders Thomas] want to become a director. I rewatched Raiders of the Lost Ark the other day. It is so well-done and so charming, and it’s such great storytelling. Obviously, it’s a great honor to be part of that franchise that I grew up with.

Did you get to read a script before saying yes to that?

MIKKELSEN: I did read the script. I’m in a lucky position where they let me read the script before. And yes, it was everything I wished it to be, so that was just great.

When you do something like that, do you feel like you get to make the character your own, much like you do with a movie like this, or is the approach different?

MIKKELSEN: Yes, I do think I’m invited in to create a character. I think that everybody wants that. That’s why they pick certain actors that they think can come up with certain things, and it will be a collaboration as it always is. Interesting enough, a little like Riders of Justice, there is a genre mix in Indiana Jones, always. There is something that is a little larger-than-life, almost back to the ‘30s with a Peter Lorre kind of feel, and then you have Indiana Jones who is a straight man. He does produce a lot of funny and interesting things, but there are different character genres in some of those films. That is interesting, to try to find that balance.

Can you say anything about the character that you’re playing in that?

MIKKELSEN: I can definitely do that, but then you’ll find me in a lake tomorrow with some cement blocks on my feet.

Having done a few films together now, are you hoping to team up again? Is it something you talk about, or does it just happen when it happens?

JENSEN: I’m done with him. No. It always takes a little while because normally, I work as a screenwriter. That is my main profession, and a once in awhile, I direct the film. Once I have something that’s readable, I try to send it to him and see if he’s still available or if he’s only doing Indiana Jones from now on.

MIKKELSEN: It’s an interesting thing because we have touched upon very different characters now in our working relationship. No matter what, there will always be some little fraction of me in the character. A lot of writers picture somebody when they write for them, so please do that again.

JENSEN: When directors use the same actors, they get this, “Why don’t you do this for other people?,” but you never hear that with a rock band. They can just play for 30 years and nobody says, “Why is he still in it?” They do get new drummers because they always die in the pool, at some point. There’s a convention that you have to change your actors, but I see it differently, especially when you have as gifted an actor as Mads. We still haven’t done a complete psycho, so we might wanna do that.

MIKKELSEN: Or a complete drama. We have lots of years ahead of us.

Mads, your career really is all over the map, with the kinds of roles you do, the size of the films, you do, and you do films in different languages. Is that something that’s important to you, or are you just going where the work is?

MIKKELSEN: It’s a balance I’m really, really pleased with. I think all actors would say, “Yeah, I would love that.” It’s a perfect balance for me, but unfortunately that’s not always the case for everyone. Maybe it is a necessity for me to work in Denmark at least once in awhile because it is my mother tongue, it is my story, it is my friends, and it’s a different feel. If this can go on, back and forth forever, I’m super happy.

JENSEN: Mads chooses on the character and the story. He’s so into the story, always. He knows exactly what he wants to do and what characters he finds interesting. And then, he’ll land in different countries and in different films.

MIKKELSEN: That’s true. The story is the most important part, and then comes the character, and then comes the people around you. You have to be able to communicate with your director somehow, on some level, where you know it’s gonna be fruitful.

Anders, as a filmmaker, what is it about Mads that and what he brings, as an actor, that makes you want to keep working with him? Do you have him in your head when you write certain characters?

JENSEN: First of all, I really don’t like the phrasing “have him in my head” because I don’t like that idea.

MIKKELSEN: It’s a better spot than anywhere else on your body.

JENSEN: I like to work with the same people and it’s an ongoing thing. We build on characters that we’ve done before. There are a lot of things I do that I wouldn’t dare to venture into without knowing that I had not only Mads, but this group of actors around me. I would say that I’m also inspired by him. He’s a good actor. I hate to do this while he’s here.

MIKKELSEN: He’s suffering so hard, you can tell. Come on, let it out.

JENSEN: Mads is the perfect actor. He takes responsibility for the whole film. He’s very physical. He can see the ending of another round. He makes people cry with dancing. Not many people can do that.

This character is not only the straight man in this story, but he’s really the very stoic man in this story. Was it ever a challenge to play that, especially with so many other wacky things happening?

MIKKELSEN: No, I wouldn’t say the word stoic. I think that something is imploding or exploding inside of this character, from the get-go, and that is very different from stoic. Stoic is almost just going over your head, but that’s not the case with him. Something is boiling. For that reason, I think it was an easier straight man play than another one who’s just always confused about what’s happening. This guy, my character, could accept the insanity for awhile, but he would cut through it because he was on a mission. In general, I think we would’ve approached it differently, Anders Thomas and me, and we would have found some other cracks throughout the scenes in the first hour, had we not had the scene in the bathroom where he completely breaks down and becomes a small child who’s helpless. Had we not had that scene, we would’ve done different things with the character throughout the film, but because we had it, we could stick to his path. That was a key key scene for the character.

Mads, what was it like to have an experience doing something like Fantastic Beasts, where you stepped into a role that had already been originally played by somebody else? Is that a different approach for you, as an actor, to figure out how to make that character your own, or are you figuring out how to build on what was already done?

MIKKELSEN: Nobody’s interested in me going in there and trying to copy anything. That would be creative suicide immediately, especially when it’s been done before and masterfully. So, everybody’s expecting us to find a different path. Having said that, we need a bridge between what he did and what I’m gonna do, so those bridges, you have to find together, whether it’s a certain look, whether it’s a certain attitude in certain situations, but you have to make it your own. Anything else would be plainly just creatively stupid.

What was it that made you want to do something like that, since that seems like an opportunity that doesn’t come along very often?

MIKKELSEN: I’m a big fan of the Potter universe. It’s a genre that you don’t touch upon in my part of the world. You can’t get away with that budget-wise in Denmark. So, obviously, when it came my way, it was a fantastic opportunity.

Considering how many villains you’ve played, are you extra cautious before doing another one? Is there something that you need to see in a character to make it feel fresh and new for you?

MIKKELSEN: Well, it’s gotta be fresh and new, or just a slight angle. There are many different things you can do in your life. Somebody said there’s only seven stories in history, and so it is with characters. You always overlap somehow. The genre might be different, so the approach will be slightly different. I’m not concerned with that at all . . . I would be concerned if I wasn’t working at all, so I’m just really grateful that it’s happening.

Anders, what inspires stories for you? Where do you get inspiration from? Is it from everywhere?

JENSEN: Yeah. Most of the times, it is actually from a character. It will be a character. More and more, it’s becoming themes. For a lot of writers, where it all starts is with a theme that you wanna explore, and there definitely was with this story. I’m very unconscious about what I do. I just try to go along with whatever feels right on the day. I write a lot, and suddenly there’s something that I wanna explore further, and sometimes it turns into something.

MIKKELSEN: It’s a humble way to answer that one. Are you familiar with the Gary Larson who does Far Side? I think Anders Thomas has the same approach to life. There’s a certain absurdity to life that Anders Thomas is constantly seeing, often where the rest of us do not see it. He didn’t put it in his answer, but I’ll do it, I think that is a very big driver of everything, all the stories he’s telling us.

Are you someone who’s writing all the time, and just sometimes those things get finished and you make a film?

JENSEN: I do have a lot of projects and I do write a lot compared to some of the other writers I know. It’s not even scripts. I’ll do a scene or I’ll just explore a character. For instance, I’m fascinated with people that lie to themselves. If I get a parking ticket, to get the anger out, I’ll go home and write a scene about that guy and try to explain why the guy who gave me the ticket is like he is. I like writing. There are times for inspiration, and then when you have enough stuff, you can feel that you have enough. When I have a theme and the beginning of some characters, then I’m a very structured and I’ll sit down and try to write a script.

When do you know that it’s something you want to actually direct?

JENSEN: Very early on, I would say. Back in the old days, I used to say that it’s because nobody else wants to do these stories, I had to direct them myself. There are just some themes that speak to me more. I’ve had stories, like In a Better World, where I was halfway through that when I decided I wasn’t gonna do it myself and I discovered that there was absolutely no comedy in it, so I teamed up with Susanne Bier and finished it. The good thing about my life and this job is that until now, it hasn’t been the same, two times. Really few people can say that about their job. It’s new every time.

Riders of Justice is now playing in theaters.