Now in its 10-episode third season, the FX comedy series Breeders continues telling the story of Paul (Martin Freeman) and Ally (Daisy Haggard), as they are navigating the ramifications of their teenaged son Luke (Alex Eastwood) shockingly punching his dad. Living at his mother-in-law’s house is not making Paul’s life any easier, but he still wants to find a way to make amends with his son and not have his daughter Ava (Eve Prenelle) feeling left out.
During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, Freeman (who co-created the show with Simon Blackwell and Chris Addison) talked about feeling like the family stalker at the beginning of Season 3, the evolving family dynamic, the use of flashbacks, feeling like there’s still more story to tell, whether he’d want to create and develop another show, and if he’s considered directing. He also talked about making Angelyne, doing the Black Panther sequel without Chadwick Boseman, and why he enjoys the opportunity to pop in and out of the MCU.
Collider: So, you’re basically the family stalker, at the beginning of this season, watching your family through a security camera, which I thought was very modern day. How did you feel about the situation that Paul finds himself in, at the start of the season? Does it feel extra harsh? Does it feel like it was a long time coming, with the way that he’s behaved?
MARTIN FREEMAN: To a certain extent, it’s a long time coming. It’s been known, from the start of Breeders, that Paul has an issue with his anger, which he has acknowledged and tried to get help for. It’s not massively surprising that has tipped over into provoking Luke to hit him, at the end of Series 2. Obviously, once your son hits you and makes you bleed, you have to take stock of that and recognize that you will have some culpability for that, even though Paul doesn’t think that Luke is blameless in that. Luke has also made some dumb decisions that have led to them having conflict, and Luke has been irresponsible, but Paul is smart enough to know that, as the father, he’s gotta take some responsibility for it.
So when we join him and he’s looking through the security camera to see what his family are up to in his absence, it just made me laugh because it’s so sad, in a way, and it’s clever and sneaky and dangerous, as well. You don’t always wanna know what people are saying in your absence. You don’t always wanna know what people are thinking or saying possibly about you because it may not be flattering at all. It just made me laugh that he’s sitting there with his whiskey and joining in by proxy on his family’s dinner while they’re playing that form of charades, or whatever. A lot of Simon Blackwell’s writing just makes me laugh.
When we spoke about Season 2, you had said that you guys had always planned ahead with this series and that you knew there would be a time jump. Did you go into Season 3 with any ideas that you’d already had? Was there anything that you knew you’d do in this season, that you knew for a while you’d be doing?
FREEMAN: That’s a good question. I think it was really colored by what happened in Season 2. We had always thought, between each season, there would be a jump, as there was between Series 1 and 2. But because of the events that happened in Season 2, we knew that we couldn’t just leave it like that, and then go five years along. We had to let people know what the aftermath of that is. A son punching a father, then not being able to be in the same house, we knew we couldn’t then cut to Luke being 18 now and it’s all fine, or whatever. A lot of what happens in Season 3 was colored by the necessity of us having to not do a time jump and just to react. We were reacting, really, to what we were left with, at the end of Season 2.
I also really like that we get flashbacks with the younger kids, to see some context for what’s going on in the present. What was that like to figure out and why do you feel that that was important to have this season?
FREEMAN: I think it’s a good device to show growth, or lack of growth, in relationships. If you’re still making exactly the same mistakes that you were seven years ago, or if you’ve made a bit of progress with that, and if your relationship with someone has deteriorated or improved, I think they’re nice little clues for the audience, as to someone’s state of mind. So much of what we are and who we are is memory based. Your identity of yourself and mine of me is gonna be based on what we remember of what we’re like. I know I’m this kind of person because I know I did this, this and this, however many years ago. I think it’s a clue as to who our characters see themselves as, and it’s also fun, as well. It’s fun to see younger Luke and Ava. I think it’s just getting to see two people’s memories, like with that one thing between Paul and Luke, with young Luke remembering something very different to what Paul remembers. For Luke, the main thing is his dad losing his shit. Whereas for Paul, his main memory is, “I was a good dad that day. I helped you out.” I certainly can relate to that. If two people have a memory of something that happened five years ago, it’s probably gonna be quite different and the accent of it is gonna be quite different.
The first season of a show, you’re always figuring out who the characters are, what the dynamics are, and what the strengths of the show are. The second season, you can focus on those strengths, build on them, and dig deeper into everything. What does the third season of a show feel like? Does it now feel like you know this character and how he’d react, in any situation?
FREEMAN: Yes, it does. I think everyone now feels totally like they’re in the groove. It doesn’t mean that there aren’t still surprises or they’re not caught off guard, but you definitely feel like you know absolutely what you are playing and who you are playing. And the writers know absolutely what they’re writing.
You helped create and develop Breeders, and you’re a producer now. Have you considered directing? Is that something you’d ever want to do? Is that not something you’re looking to do?
FREEMAN: It’s something that I would consider. I do think about it. I change with it, really. Sometimes when I’m on set and I see what a director does, I look at it and go, “Yeah, I could do that. I’d be right with this part of it.” But then, there are other parts of directing that I’m still not sure I’d have the mental bandwidth for, just with the endless questions and how you have to be across everything. I know I would enjoy the bits where I’m rehearsing with actors. I don’t know how good I’d be at the other stuff, or how much I’d enjoy that stuff. But never say never. If I get the confidence to think I could do it, then maybe so.
I’ve also seen your work in Angelyne, which is such a crazy story. I’m aware of Angelyne because I’m from Los Angeles and I’ve seen her pink car driving around, but I’m curious, did you know anything about Angelyne or who she is? Is she a very specific L.A. character? Does anyone outside of L.A. know who she is?
FREEMAN: I think she is pretty specifically L.A. because even talking to east coast people who I know, they weren’t that aware of her. I had heard of her, but it was only through reading the scripts, and then watching the documentary and doing a bit of reading up about her, that I realized to what extent she was this L.A. cult figure, especially at a certain time. But no, I haven’t spotted her in real life. I haven’t spotted her in the wild, but a lot of people who worked on the show had. As I was doing it, I would suddenly see references to her more, in real life. I’d see drawings of her and articles about her, and I’d realize that she was a presence in the mythology of that city.
Your character is so interesting because Angelyne is more of a mythical figure than a human being, and he helps to humanize her a bit.
FREEMAN: It’s been said that she was the first Instagram type of person, the first pre-Kardashian celebrity. It’s the whole thing that we’ve been talking about for a couple of decades now, being famous just for being famous. She was unapologetically just wanting to be famous. My character was like, “Are you a singer? Are you an actor? What are you?” She was like, “No, I’m just me, I’m just Angelyne,” which was exciting enough for people around to go, “Okay, this sounds bananas. Let’s try it. Let’s go for it.” That hadn’t really been done before, in such a bold way, where you’re like, “No, I don’t have any discernable talent, but my talent is just being my wonderful self.” It’s a strange one because, on the one hand, there’s a lot of that around now. There’s a lot of that in the cultural currency of, “You are enough. You are your own star.” But for me, personally, I quite like people to have ability, as well.
When we last spoke for Season 2 of Breeders, you knew then that you were going to be in Black Panther 2, but you hadn’t read a script and you hadn’t talked to Ryan Coogler yet. Now that the film has wrapped, what was it like to be on the set, knowing that everyone was there to honor the legacy of someone who was the reason the first film happened and now wasn’t there anymore?
FREEMAN: It was strange, that side of it. On the one hand, you’re making the film that you’re there to make, and there are scores and scores of people on set, joined in this endeavor to make the film. But there’s also no question that, at the heart of it, there’s quite a gap now, and you felt it. With full respect to Ryan Coogler and everybody else, who’s sweating and bleeding to get this thing done properly, it was fun. It was enjoyable. I was in and out of it quite quickly, I think. But I like playing Everett Ross. He’s a very fun character to play. He’s nicely simpatico for the story. He’s a good guy. But it was odd. Of course, it was odd with Chadwick [Boseman] not being there. There’s no way around that. I think everyone would find it pretty strange and sad, but at the same time, life things don’t just end. It’s not like, "Well, that’s that’s happened, so we just all have to go off and never do it again." But it was odd. When he passed, I thought, "Okay, well maybe there just won’t be another one." But there are still other stories to tell within that world and other great characters. I think and I hope that we’ve made a good film. I trust Ryan Coogler a lot.
When you were on The Late Late Show with James Corden, you said that the rundown of the sequel and your role in it that Ryan Coogler gave you was a bit odd and that you weren’t quite sure what to make of it. Once you got on set and now that you’ve shot the film, do you feel like you know what to make of it now, or are you waiting to see the movie?
FREEMAN: Yes, I can envisage it much, much more now. When Ryan was going through it and talking me through the beats, I kept stopping him going, "What did you just say?," which was quite funny. Obviously, once you’ve been on the set, it feels much more three-dimensional and real yeah.
Does it feel very different to then go back to doing something like Breeders, where you are just playing a normal guy in a normal family?
FREEMAN: Yeah, but I love the variety of that. I really love the variety of what my career enables me to do. I really love that you can go from this world to that world and your job essentially stays the same. Your job is essentially to be believable, in whatever world you are in, and to make it human. Some are more domestic than others. Breeders is more domestic than Black Panther, for sure. Even the character I play in Black Panther, Everett Ross, he’s very much flesh and blood. He’s not a superhero. He’s all about business. He’s a very able, ex-military guy who wants to get shit done, but just him being in the Marvel world and being, you can go off to a condo. It’s very different to Breeders, where you’re just trying to have dinner with your teenage kid.
When you signed on to play Everett Ross, how specific did they get with you? Did you know then that you’d be returning for a sequel? Did you know that you could return and pop up in Disney+ shows? Do they just call you on a special Marvel superhero phone when they’re ready for you to come back?
FREEMAN: I was contracted to do three films, Captain America and two Black Panthers. I knew that I’d be in one Cap and two Black Panthers. Beyond that, I didn’t know about any TV shows, or anything like that. Maybe they didn’t exist when I had that conversation with Kevin Feige in 2014. So much I knew, but there are other bits that continue to be a little surprise and like a little bonus. I love that feeling. I love being surprised and being contacted and having them go, “Do you wanna come and do this thing?” It’s just fun. It’s a nice world to dip your toe in and to be able to have the freedom to come in and out, which is perfect for me. I don’t love being on the same thing, all the time. I don’t love that. I’m not saying anything particularly surprising there. I think people know that I like going and having an adventure over there, and then coming back, and then going over there and doing that. That feels very, very lucky to me, that I get to do that.
And I’m sure that doing something like Breeders, where it’s a shorter season than typical American television, is a bonus. And even with Sherlock, you’ve done that for several seasons, but it’s really more movies than full seasons. I would imagine all of that makes things more attractive to you, in that sense.
FREEMAN: Yeah, I like things that are finite. I’m very attracted to finite things. I really am. I’ve never been dying to do something for nine months of the year. That’s the same thing with theater. The thing that slightly limits me sometimes is that I love doing plays, but I don’t wanna do it for six months, and it’s unlikely that I ever will. I’m sure something could surprise me and I’ll go, “Yes, sign me up forever,” but I’m too impatient for the next thing. I love knowing what’s around the corner, and I love stretching myself in different ways and reading different scripts and being a part of different worlds. That is too attractive to me to settle down too much in one place, almost like having a real job. That’s why I wanted to be an actor, so I didn’t have to have a real job. That’s what’s attractive to me.
Having been so creatively involved with Breeders, do you see yourself doing something like that again? Would you want to create another show?
FREEMAN: Since then, I’ve done a show called The Responder, in which I was an executive producer as well. I was the first person to read the script and I helped get it into the whole pitching process, and that way, you have a say in casting, et cetera. I really love that. I have a vote and not just an opinion. I actually have a voice at the table, which is nice. I don’t know. With Breeders, I literally had a dream. You can’t really plan that. I have a couple of other ideas for things that I could see being real, but I’m not a person who has 10 ideas a month, where I think, “Let’s pitch this.” I love acting and I get to do acting a lot and, if very occasionally, I get to put on a producer’s hat, then I’m very happy with that. But I don’t think I’ve got 10 great shows up my sleeve that I’m gonna come out with, in the next year.
Do you see a fourth season for Breeders? Do you still feel like there is still more story to tell with this family?
FREEMAN: Yeah, I can see more. We’re having those conversations at the moment, actually, about what that would mean. It doesn’t feel like we’re done yet.
Breeders airs on Monday nights on FX and is available to stream at Hulu.