Warning: Venom spoilers are discussed in this interview.

Shortly before Venom arrived in theaters, I sat down with director Ruben Fleischer for a spoiler-filled conversation about the making of the film. Now that the film has been out for a little while, we can dive into all of the specifics, including why certain decisions were made.

During the interview, Fleischer talks about how the film came together in the editing room, the lack of deleted scenes, how the lobster tank scene with Tom Hardy happened, if the movie always opened with the spaceship crashing on Earth, Riz Ahmed’s character’s motivations, why they decided to include She-Venom in the film, the Woody Harrelson after-the-credits scene which introduces Carnage, and what’s up with Zombieland 2.

Check out what he had to say below.

Venom follows disgraced reporter Eddie Brock (Tom Hardy) who comes into contact with an alien symbiote that turns him into the creature known as “Venom”. The film also stars Riz Ahmed as Dr. Carlton Drake, Michelle Williams as Anne Weying, Jenny Slate as a scientist working for Drake, and Reid Scott as a doctor trying to help Brock.

Collider: I like asking about the editing process, because ultimately, that's the final re-write. What did you learn from early friends and family screenings, or any test screenings, that impacted the finished film?

RUBEN FLEISCHER:  We actually did very few screenings of the movie because of the protective nature of not wanting a lot of word to get out about the film. So, most of what we learned about the movie was from our own internal process of trying to figure out the relationship between Eddie, and Venom, and wanting to mine that, because I think that's the core of the movie, is the dynamic between Eddie and Venom. That's what we really, through the editing process, were mining and leaning into, and wanting to cultivate and expand upon. That was for me, the most exciting aspect of the movie, and what I was trying to cultivate.

I always am curious about deleted scenes. How long was your first cut, compared to the finished film?

FLEISCHER: Well, the movie was pretty short. I'm trying to remember. The original cut wasn't...sometimes, you hear about three hour long assemblies. It wasn't that. I think the original editor's assembly, where it has every single scene in it, maybe two hours, which is a surprisingly short amount of time for a movie, because we ended up not that much shorter than that. So, it didn't get pared down too significantly.

This movie was always intended just as a really fun, crowd-pleasing ride. It's full of action. It's just a fun movie, so it was always from script to finish line, it was just a tight, just exciting ride.

The thing is, as you I'm sure are aware, the two films that people love to know about everything are superhero movies, and Star Wars films. It's like, they want the nitty gritty, in terms of what scene was cut, and why. I've learned the fans want to know everything.

FLEISCHER: Of course, yeah. As far as the specifics, I'm trying to think of what didn't make its way in. We really tried to capitalize on everything that we shot. I think Tom Hardy's performance is so strong.

He's what we call, a talented actor.

FLEISCHER: I would agree with that. It's great, so anything with Tom just doing what he does, which is elevate, and just invent, and make memorable scenes, we tried to just really feature as best as we could.  One of my favorite scenes in the movie is that first scene in the bistro, when he first hears Venom, and he's talking to Anne, and he interrupts Anne and Dan's lunch, and he ends up in the lobster tank. That was something that Tom invented himself. We had planned out the blocking for the scene, and it just so happened that there was a giant lobster tank, as a part of the production design. But it was never intended that Eddie was gonna' get in the tank. But Tom's the kind of actor who, when he comes into an environment, and he figures out how he might want to realize it, if there is a giant lobster tank, he's the kind of guy who says, "I'm gonna get in that lobster tank."

By the way, that's a fun scene, because he is just going for it in that scene.

FLEISCHER: I know. We had an even more heightened version, but what we try to always do is, take him going for it, and then ground it. So, when we went to rehearse the scene, we actually did it before the day of shooting. He wanted to get a sense of the environment, so he could plan in his head what he wanted to do. When he was there, he saw, "Oh shit, there's this giant lobster tank. I think Eddie would want to get in that tank."

So, we hadn't intended it. So production design overnight had to figure out how to steel reinforce the tank. We had live lobsters planned, so we had to get a bunch of fake lobsters to fill it with so that the actor could get in the tank with them. But, that's the kind of thing about working with a genius like Tom Hardy is, he's always gonna go to that next level. He's always gonna take it further. He's always gonna elevate the material, and the scene that you've imagined, he's gonna make it better. That's just what he does.

The movie starts with the spaceship crashing on Earth. Was that always the beginning of the film? Did you have a different version of how the movie was gonna start?

FLEISCHER: There is a lot of different versions of how the alien gets to Earth that we played with, and I'll be honest, the movie didn't always start with the crash. I felt strongly that, for lack of a better expression, that the movie should start with a bang, so the crash seemed like a great way just to kick it off. So, in the editorial process, you're always adjusting scenes, and changing order, and playing with the pieces that you have like a puzzle. So my instinct was that you might as well just introduce the titular character. We see that container being lowered down, with the black Symbiote in it, and that's his first appearance. But then, we quickly learn that Riot has infected the astronaut, Jameson, and that is the beginning of the villain's story. So actually, we introduce our hero, we see a glimpse of him, and then the villain takes the forefront, completing with the ambulance crash and the EMT walking off into the night. Then our title, and then we meet our hero, Eddie, soon thereafter.

One of the things I like is, that the villain character, Riz's character, isn't trying to be infected. He is not trying to become another quasi-Venom if you will. Was there ever motivation for how he was gonna act, and what he wanted to accomplish? 

FLEISCHER: There's a lot of tropes of a villain, and how did we avoid them? Well, what I like about Drake's character is, there's a moral ambiguity. Ultimately, his goal is positive. He wants to save the race, but the way by which he goes about it is, at the cost of human life. Most people would say you can't use humans as test subjects, and not care about the repercussions. But in his mind, whether it be for a cure for pancreatic cancer, where maybe 20 people die, if he can save hundreds of thousands of lives, then that's an expense that he doesn't mind. Most people would say, "Well, if we had loss of any human life, it doesn't matter." But, he's looking at the big picture. What's 15, 20 lives, if it's gonna result in millions of lives being saved? Similarly, his goal with our humanity as a whole is, that he feels like our planet is not long for this world, whether it's climate change, or nuclear war, or just our own demise at our own hands, he wants to look to the future. He's mining other planets, to potentially become colonies for our race. It's in that process, he comes across the aliens. But in his mind, if he's able to save humanity at the cost of a few lives, then that's an easy choice to make.

Talk a little bit about putting She-Venom in the movie, and was it something that was it always in the script, something the studio wanted? Because, there's a lot of possibilities that can play off that.

FLEISCHER: Yeah, with Anne Weying, that character from the comics, everyone knows that eventually, she becomes She-Venom. We had always been excited, and I think Michelle as well, had always been excited at the prospect of her playing She-Venom. I just felt this great Easter egg for fans, to be able to see her realized. I don't think anyone's expecting it, and fortunately marketing hasn't spoiled it yet, so hopefully they won't. But I think it's one of those things that, hopefully people won't be expecting, and they'll tell their friends, "Oh my God, you won't believe who's in this movie!" She's such a fan favorite, to get to see a glimpse of her, is really exciting. Then, there's the potential for more of her down the road, whether it's in a Venom movie, or a standalone movie. I think Michelle's so amazing in this film, and the prospect of She-Venom having another appearance would be really exciting.

I have to ask about the first after-credits scene. You have a history with Woody Harrelson. Was it tough to get him? Was it like a text message, "Hey, I'm doing this. I think you would be pretty cool"? I would imagine whoever you put in that role needs to sign on for a sequel.

FLEISCHER: Yes, certainly. Yeah, it was pretty much as you described.

Was it a text message?

FLEISCHER: No, yeah, I don't think Woody texts. I don't have his phone number, if he does, but he emails. So yeah, I sent Woody an email, just saying, "Hey." Because, we were working on Zombieland simultaneously, and we have been for four years. So, I've been talking to Woody a lot about that movie. So, while we were in prep on Venom, and we decided we wanted to do this little teaser scene, there was nobody else I thought of. When you think of Cletus Kasady, and you think of Natural Born Killers, there is a natural connection between the two. And just given my relationship—and Tom Hardy is also a huge fan of Woody's—it just seemed like a great opportunity. We had this awesome dinner in London, when I was over there one time, with Tom, where Woody was also in London, and we all hung out. I think that's actually what sealed the deal. I'd mentioned the possibility, but then we all got together and had dinner, and talked about it. Woody got really excited, and so yeah, we've laid the groundwork, hopefully we'll be in a position to be able to make a sequel.

How early on did you know you wanted to do Carnage as the after the credits scene?

FLEISCHER: It was over the course of pre-production. We felt strongly that, the first movie needed a place to build to. Carnage is the character I think fans and everyone wants to see the most in the Venom world, but we didn't want to spoil it on the first movie. The first movie is all about Eddie, and Venom, and their relationship, and establishing the character. Then from there, it felt like we wanted to give them a place to go. So, choosing their most formidable adversary felt like a great, natural sequel.

I have to ask you about Zombieland 2. There's been a long gap since the first one, to the sequel. Are you a little bit concerned, or worried about retaining the energy, and surprise of the original? And is that a story point in the sequel?

FLEISCHER: Yeah, well you can't help but acknowledge the passage of time, because Abigail, who was 12 in the first one, no longer is 12, so I think that the passage of time is inherent. We've acknowledged, and embraced it as part of the storytelling.

As far as the energy, and surprise, it's really important to everyone involved in the film, whether it's me, the cast, the producer, we all feel very strongly that, the only reason to make this movie is, if we feel like it can meet, or go beyond the original. None of us want to do anything to undermine the original, because it's so important for us all, that we feel so confident in the story that we're telling, and the world that we're creating, we feel like it's the only reason to make it is. It's gonna be great.