[Editor’s note: The following contains major spoilers for Season 2 of Shadow and Bone.]In Season 2 of the Netflix series Shadow and Bone, which is based on the best-selling Grishaverse novels from Leigh Bardugo, Alina Starkov (Jessie Mei Li) knows that being the Sun Summoner means that she represents hope to some and danger to others, but what she doesn’t yet know is what that means for her. And with General Kirigan (Ben Barnes), aka The Darkling, and his army of indestructible shadow monsters after her, Alina must harness the depths of her own power in order to save herself, her loved ones, and her world.

During this 1-on-1 interview with Collider, Li talked about why they love playing Alina, what they learned from making two seasons of Shadow and Bone, being your own advocate for self-love and self-care, the swashbuckling feel of Season 2, what Nikolai (Patrick Gibson) brings to the series, the Alina-Mal (Archie Renaux) dynamic, their experience filming the final sequences for the season, the meaning behind that last moment, and their hopes for Season 3.

Collider: This character just seems like she would be an absolute dream to play.

JESSIE MEI LI: I love playing Alina. In Season 1, I felt like, “Okay, I’ve got the easiest job, really. It’s an audience surrogate character.” And I didn’t feel like Alina had so many traits from the books that were important to carry over to the show. My other castmates had so many little idiosyncratic things about the characters. And then, actually, what I then found was that it’s actually very challenging playing Alina. Her story has essentially been cut down to the bare minimum. There’s so much going on in the show. We’ve got Alina’s storyline. We’ve got all these other storylines. And to show that growth and arc across the season, in these short moments, and also because Alina, especially in the show, doesn’t talk about how she feels and holds a lot of her emotions, it was really quite challenging, to show and not show. And then, on a physical level, holding the kind of tension in my body that Alina holds in her body was so tiring. Honestly, it sounds weird, but it’s different from where I hold my tension. By the end of the day, my neck would be so sore, and I was constantly complaining about having a bad back. That was all from this very tense little character, and I had to be in her shoes for five months. It’s strange and difficult playing Alina, but also just so rewarding. I had a lot of help. We have such an amazing crew and cast that they make it easy, to be honest.

The first season of a TV show is always interesting because you’re figuring out a lot about what the show is, who the characters are, and how the relationships work. And then, on top of that, you were doing this fantasy series, so you were also figuring out what that means and what it all would look like. How different did it feel to go into Season 2? What did you learn from making a season of the show, that you were able to build on for Season 2? Did it feel different in any particular ways?

LI: Yeah, you made a good point there, in saying that we knew what we were making by Season 2. With Season 1, I had no idea what the show was gonna be like. I really didn’t. I would look at playback sometimes on the monitors, and I could see that it was so beautifully shot. It was so exciting and there were so many amazing set pieces, but I didn’t know how it was going to cut together or who it was going to appeal to. I didn’t know any of those things. So, coming back for Season 2, and having met a lot of our fan base, I learned that the show is way more universal than I thought it would be. I thought it was going to be a teenage YA fantasy audience, and actually it’s not. There will be a bloke in his fifties who says, “Yeah, I watch your show. I don’t even have kids.” It had a huge, very passionate fan base, but it also appealed to many more people. Some of the reservations I had about the show in Season 1, actually turned out to be really good things that really appealed to people. So, for Season 2, it was like, “Okay, I know what’s going on.” I’m always learning. I’m one of those actors that came into it with less training that I would have liked, but what that’s meant is that I do learn. I learned on Shadow and Bone Season 1. I learned so much on Shadow and Bone Season 2. Season 1 was about how it all works and understanding a film set, but Season 1, for me, was actually learning more about how to conduct myself on set in a way that was healthy and comfortable for me. I have a tendency to forget to look after myself, a little bit. I’m always thinking, “Oh, I wouldn’t want to be too demanding, or be a diva, or anything.” But actually, sometimes it’s okay to ask for what you want and be comfortable, so I learned, in Season 2, to have a bit more self-love and self-care, which is really important. A huge part of the job is maintaining your energy, so looking after yourself is so important. I definitely learned that in Season 2.

If you’re not your own advocate, who else is going to be? You have to speak up for yourself sometimes.

LI: Yeah, 2023 is the year of being assertive and saying no and looking after number one because it’s important. I think lots of us struggle to do that because we think it’s being selfish or making it about you, but it’s not and it’s totally okay. That was my big takeaway from Season 2.

You’ve talked about how different Season 2 is from the books and that you personally found that to be exciting. What’s it like to figure out how to balance that, so you’re pulling from the books, even if it’s in small ways, but you’re also doing something new?

LI: So much of that, the responsibility is actually taken away from me because it’s in the writing. I’m one of those actors who gets the script, reads it, goes “Cool,” performs it, and then it’s done and I’m ready to move on. So much of my work with the characterization of Alina is done for me. There are things that I’ve definitely taken from the book, like thoughts and feelings that she had, especially in the first book. It diverts so much from the original storyline in books two and three, but I had used a lot of that from the book to color in her core personality and the things that really make her tick. But honestly, because I’m so aware that Alina is different in the show, in the sense that everyone is Alina when they read the book, but Alina in the show is show Alina, and she has her own character. There’s quite a lot of freedom in that. I’ve never really worried about whether a fan is gonna like this Alina. I think it’s exciting to make a choice, and hopefully people respond well to it. What’s really lovely is that, after Season 1 and meeting some fans, it’s become very clear to me that Alina did really appeal to lots of people and, in a way that I really was not expecting, people get very emotional about it. It makes me emotional when people are being emotional about it. And so, that’s been really lovely, just knowing that I feel like we can then be creative and be bold and make decisions, and the majority of the fan base are just happy to see what we do with it. That’s exciting.

I love that there’s a bit of a swashbuckling feel to some of the episodes this season. What did you most enjoy about adding a bit of that and about exploring that dynamic between Alina and Nikolai? What does he bring out in her?

LI: At the time we were filming, I was so aware that Alina is having such a terrible time, the whole way through filming, because I felt it in my body. But watching it back, especially the earlier episodes, what’s really nice is that, with the swashbuckling section of Season 2, it seems to be the time when Alina is having the most fun. The rest of the storyline for Alina and Mal is very heavy and emotional and full of trauma. But that beginning, where she’s on this exciting adventure with Mal and she’s butting heads with Nikolai, you get to see Alina being a little bit more vibrant and smiling and laughing. Perhaps she’s smiling and laughing at Mal and Nikolai, but that was really lovely. Watching it back, it was like, “Oh, it’s nice to see her having fun, poor thing.”

It seems like that also comes from the fact that like Nikolai doesn’t seem to be bothered by who she really is. She has this freedom to be herself because he doesn’t really care about that aspect of her.

LI: Yeah, that’s a really good observation. And it was just nice to have Paddy (Patrick Gibson) in the mix. Me, Paddy and Archie [Renaux] spent a lot of time together. They were like little puppies, just rolling around with each other, and having that dynamic between Mal and Nikolai was really nice. In the books, they’re like rivals, whereas in the show, they were going more for them having a bromance, which was really lovely. It was great having that shift in dynamic and adding in a third person to this storyline, who could shake things up and have Alina butt heads with him. Alina and Mal are such a unit that it was quite nice to have a little angst between Alina and Nikolai.

What did you most enjoy about the journey and arc between Alina and Mal in Season 2, especially with them getting such a full arc to their relationship?

LI: I think it’s such a lovely, beautiful story. It’s sad and it’s bittersweet, but sometimes the best stories are. It’s heart-wrenching. Myself, and lots of people I know, you have a Mal or an Alina in your life. I had a Mal, when I was younger. What’s really lovely is that there are so many routes you could go down with these two characters. They could have just ended up, at the end of the season, similarly to how they do in the books, where they have their happily ever after. But it was about, if you love someone, you’ve gotta let them go and be their own person. In Season 1, Alina was completely dependent on Mal, and is only just starting to find her feet. And then, in Season 2, you watch her struggling with the fact that she has to let go of him and she has to literally kill him. That is a huge moment of growth for her, to be able to stand on her own two feet and not have this safety blanket of this person who’s meant so much to her whole life. That’s terrifying, but for me, it was also very, very emotional. There’s something very powerful in that. I just love the relationship. Archie is such an incredible actor to work with. He’s so good. He’s so subtle and understated, but gives these incredibly powerful performances that affect me so much. I don’t have to do shit. I really feel like we both really understood our characters. I feel like I knew Mal so well, and vice versa. It just meant that there was a level of comfort and understanding, which I feel translated on screen and into their relationship. So, I hope it’s a story that appeals and that people can relate to it because one of my favorite parts of it was that that love story.

At the end of the season, you have the defeat of the Darkling and you all burn his body. What was it like to shoot that? What was it like to have that final moment between the Darkling and the Sun Summoner, after everything they’ve been through, but also to do a scene like that, where your co-star is just laying there? Are there ever really funny moments because it’s just so strange and surreal and silly?

LI: Oh, God, every day, it feels surreal and silly on Shadow and Bone. I can’t speak for everyone, but I think especially for myself and probably Ben, as well, because so much of what we’re doing is magic. When you’re watching it and there’s music and effects and everything, you don’t question it. But if you see the behind the scenes, there are green screens and me just grunting, and it’s hilarious. For the Kirigan funeral scene, I was very, very tired, by the time we finished shooting Shadow and Bone, to the point where I was like, “I don’t remember filming this.” That’s how tired I was. That last few weeks, and when we shot that scene, which we did over a few days, it was absolutely boiling. It was so hot out. We were on a sand dune with very little shade, and we were all dying, so production kept bringing ice cream, which was lovely. Not only was it really hot, and we were in quite thick costumes, but then I literally had to go stand next to a bonfire for quite a few shots, where Alina in speaking to Kirigan’s body. It was just like hell. It was a hellfire. But it was all very surreal and funny. There are a few shots of Ben actually lying there, but then the mannequin that they used for Kirigan’s body, the wax head went completely white during the scene. I remember looking at it and going, “Well, that doesn’t look right.” And then, funny things kept happening, like his little shoes started to bend, like the Wicked Witch of the West. I think Freddy [Carter], or somebody pointed out his little bendy Elven shoes. That was all very funny. It was quite a serious scene, but in between takes, everyone was just losing their minds because we were boiling hot. Also, it was rare that we were all in a scene together, so spirits were high, everyone was in hysterics, and we were all a bit delirious. It was great.

When I spoke to Ben Barnes about that scene, he told me that it was so hot that, even when there weren’t actual flames while he was lying there, he felt like he was on fire because it was just so hot underneath him.

LI: And he had it the worst. Not only was he wearing black, but it was four different layers and one of them was leather. I was complaining about the heat and really struggling, and I was like, “Mate, I actually don’t know how you’re holding it together. I would be in tears.” But he obviously has a stronger constitution than me.

With fantasy, it seems like the scenes that are always the more amazing to look at or are the most emotionally effective are the ones that are the silliest on the day, when you’re shooting them.

LI: Absolutely. It couldn’t be more true of Shadow and Bone, as well. A lot of the big emotional moments or big action set pieces were just hilarious. They were just so funny to film. It always added a layer of enjoyment for me, watching the show back, because it would be such a serious scene, but I’d remember that we were laughing our heads off, the whole way through, or people were playing tricks on each other that day. It’s lovely having those memories come flooding back, watching the show.

Alina defeats the Darkling and destroys The Fold, but that doesn’t solve all the problems that are out there, as we see with the sequence at the very end. You have Alina dressed beautifully and with a crown on her head, balanced with this horrible thing that’s happening with people just spitting blood everywhere. What was that like to shoot?

LI: I have to be completely honest about this scene, and it’s been enough time now that I can find it funny. When we were shooting that scene, the dress was incredibly heavy and, in order to hold it on the day, I wore a corset. Now, my co-star, Dani (Danielle Galligan), who plays Nina, wore a corset every day and did fight scenes in it. She’s an incredible, powerful woman. I wore a corset or one day and couldn’t handle it. Alina, in that scene, is getting heart rendered, so her heart is being squeezed. There’s an unspoken rule about being heart rendered that we all do, where we hold our breath to push the blood to our face. I do a lot of that in the show. There are quite a lot of times where I’m being strangled, or whatever. The thing is, that’s quite difficult to do well, over and over, without injuring yourself. So, I was doing that, but then in the script, it says that Alina falls to her knees. I was having to kneel down, bending over, and I couldn’t breathe, at all, in the corset, and then I had to stand up and do an incredibly explosive movement. It’s quite funny because, watching the show, I actually paused it, at that moment, just before Alina does the cut, and I’m literally purple in the face and it’s so gross. We’d probably done it about eight times, and then after that one take, Paddy, who plays Nikolai, look at me and was like, “Oh, you don’t look very good,” because I couldn’t catch my breath in between takes. I’d been very stressed and tired, and I just had an anxiety attack in the middle of the scene. Production were fantastic. They looked after me, really well. I got taken off, and I chilled out, felt better, and calmed down. But while I was away taking it easy, that’s when they shot all the people throwing up blood. I had just come back, and people were doing it from behind, in a different way. All the close-ups were while I was away. So, watching that scene back, I knew what was gonna happen, but my heart was racing. I was like, “This is so gross. This is so much more intense than I envisaged, with the crescendo of the music.” I was really like, “Oh, my God, my heart is beating so much,” but then I also wasn’t sure if it was just me, remembering my anxiety attack. That was a heavy day, but it’s such a great scene and it was so exciting. I hope people find it exciting. It leaves the show on such a cool little cliffhanger. I’ve learned to maybe do a bit more breathing techniques, or don’t try to bend over wearing a corset.

I love the last moment because you’re not really sure what to make of Alina’s reaction to what she’s done. She’s basically cut this woman in half, and she seems happy or almost satisfied with it. Did you have conversations about what that was meant to be? What were you thinking, in regard to that moment?

LI: I feel like I’m gonna misquote the script, so apologies to my writers. I’m not someone who does a lot of talking about the character. I like to show up with an idea, and then we discuss it with the director and the writers. But the script said something like, “We’re on Alina, and there’s shock on her face over what she’s just done. But wait, is that pride?” I think that was the last line of the script, or something along that vein anyway. So, that’s what I had to work with. It was exciting because there are little hints at Alina being tempted by power and having a bit of darkness. For me, it actually makes sense that this character, who had a really hard life, does have that side to her. Every time she uses the cut, or she does something powerful, you see it on her face. She likes being powerful. So, that last moment was really interesting because it’s that mix of pure horror over what she’s just done, but also, “Oh, shit, I’m really powerful.” What was important to me was that Alina holds a lot of tension, a lot of fear, and a lot of anxiety, and in that last moment, I actually wanted that to fade away. I wanted her to suddenly lose that human element of fear and almost become a little bit more ethereal in this like dark way, which is all due to capture in that one moment. Watching it back, I was like, “Yeah, that’s what I hoped it would be.” Also, because it’s kind of ambiguous, I think it’s quite nice. I like it when things aren’t always clear and people might take away different things from it. That’s exciting.

It also makes you realize that clearly there’s more story to tell. Your showrunner had originally pitched a three-season plan for this series to Netflix, so have you had any conversations about the possibility of continuing the story? Do you know what would come next?

LI: Everybody in the show wants to go again. There’s so much passion for it. The cast has all said that we have to go again. I love them all so much. It’s the best school trip away with your best mates. Of course, I wanna do it again. There are definitely plans in the works and there have definitely been discussions about where our characters might go, but with the nature of streamers, it’s down to how many people watch the show and what the response is like. I just really hope people watch it and enjoy it because I would love to go again and finish that story to see what happens to Alina. Equally, I’ve also had the most wonderful time on Shadow and Bone and I will always cherish it so much. Watch our show, please, so I can go and play with my friends again. I was very affected by the ending. They’ve left it in a really exciting place, and I think it would be such a shame to finish the story there.

After you play a character like this, how do you figure out what you want to do next? Does it become harder to find something that interests you, or does it make you more focused about what you do and don’t want to do?

LI: Yeah, actually. I’m one of those people who likes novel experiences. I just wanna do everything. What I’m really keen on is doing something completely different from Shadow and Bone. Not because it’s bad, or I don’t like the character, or anything like that, but I’ve completed that level of the game and I wanna do the next level. I also feel like, in my heart, while it’s incredible to be in this big Netflix show, I’m more of a small, low budget kind of girl. I’d love to be in a little film that’s someone’s debut feature, that’s a small story about a life, or something. Something just opposite from this huge, epic fantasy would be really exciting. I honestly don’t really know what I wanna do, but I just know that whatever it is, it’s gonna be different. I just want the opportunity to get into a different character, that’s so different from Alina. That’s definitely my preference.

Shadow and Bone is available to stream at Netflix.