Let me start off by saying how much I loved director Julian Schnabel’s (The Diving Bell and the Butterfly, Basquiat) latest film, At Eternity's Gate, starring Willem Dafoe as Vincent van Gogh. Unlike some films based on a real person or subject matter, Schnabel has crafted an impressionistic version of Van Gogh’s story, allowing Dafoe to explore the troubled painter's last days using a mixture of his actual letters and moments that are invented. While I’ve seen many portrayals of Van Gogh over the years, I believe Dafoe has delivered the definitive version, allowing the viewer to get a glimpse inside his troubled mind. In a year of amazing performances, Dafoe is near the top. At Eternity’s Gate also stars Mads MikkelsenEmmanuelle SeignerAmira Casar, Niels Arestrup, and Oscar Isaac.

With the film arriving in theaters this weekend, I recently sat down with Willem Dafoe for an exclusive interview. He talked about what it’s like working with a director who is also a painter, what surprised him to learn about van Gogh, what it was like learning to paint for the film, working with Oscar Isaac as Paul Gauguin, when he realized this was going to be such a special film, filming in some of the real locations where van Gogh actually painted, memorable moments from filming, and a lot more.

Check out what Willem Dafoe had to say below.

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Image via CBS Films

Collider: You've been talking all day about At Eternity's Gate, so I want to start with two other questions first. What was it like after Fault In Our Stars, were teenage girls ever angry with you on the street?

WILLEM DAFOE: Ah, that's a good question. No. I think they were mostly just happy to see a character from that movie. They were so in love that movie, that they didn't judge him. They were all accepting.

Secondly, I absolutely love John Wick. When you were making it, did you have any inkling that this was going to be such a huge movie, and to mean so much to so many people?

DAFOE: I didn't because the basic story is quite simple. It was really the kind of the handling, so you couldn't anticipate that, you know? No, I had no idea. It was good. It was in the handling and the direction and being able to reimagine New York in a slightly different way. Who would have thought that was possible?

I agree with that. Let's jump into why I get to talk to you today; I'm a big fan of director Julian Schnabel’s work. You've worked with him a number of times.

DAFOE: In small ways, yeah. And happily.

So, talk a little bit about how he has changed as a filmmaker since Basquiat, or has he changed? Because that was his first movie, and now he's such a more accomplished filmmaker …

DAFOE: Yeah, of course he has. He's matured. I mean, this is a big leap. I mean Basquiat, yeah, it's a beautiful film in the respect that it really captured something. It's like a beautiful fairy tale for me because I was in New York in those days. I don't know what to say, except I think this is his most mature work. And most brave.

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Image via CBS Films

Well, it's interesting because there are going to be many people who don't realize he's a painter. And he's-

DAFOE: Okay, fair enough. I've, yeah, okay.

You know what I mean? There are going to be people that don't realize he's a painter and it's amazing to have a painter making a movie about a painter.

DAFOE: Absolutely.

I take it for granted when I was watching it, I know Julian's a painter, but many people won't.

DAFOE: It's true, it's true.

What do you think he is able to show on screen, because he is a gifted artist?

DAFOE: Well, there's a lot of painting on screen. And it's not jive. You really see what he's talking about. It's not like illustrating, but often the things he's talking about, you see ... in a very concrete way. That's why it was important for me to learn how to paint and that's why it was important for me to paint in the movie. There's no stunt painter. We're not cutting away. I'm painting.

So, when you're hearing him and Gauguin talking about different ways of approaching painting, you see it. Also, you start to understand some of the very complicated, very philosophical things that van Gogh talked about in terms of nature and god and painting. You see it, you know? Basically, Julian understands some of these challenges and some of these difficulties.

I know you must have done a ton of research, so what were some of the things that you took away from learning about him that really captured your imagination or inspired you?

DAFOE: I learned many things of course, I think of so many things because there's such richness; the letters, the biographies, the paintings. There's so much to go with. I think the biggest surprise was I didn't realize so much about his early life and how much it was colored by his father being a pastor, and all his life he was trying to reconcile or work out this spiritual impulse. That took the shape of service, that he had something to offer, he had to contribute something. That was very strong in his letters. Also, he was a very compassionate person.

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Image via CBS Films

He was, socially, totally a clod. He talked about it a lot. And people talked about it. He was a very difficult guy. But he talks very beautifully about working class people. Poor people, the beauty of ... he said some wild things about how there could be purity of the heart with the defilement of the body. He was past dualistic thinking in a lot of ways; he was a free thinker.

He also saw the world in such a unique way. I also didn't realize he painted 75 paintings or 80 paintings in like 75 days …

DAFOE: Yeah, like one a day, practically.

It's crazy.

DAFOE: Yeah.

Let me go backwards. You learned how to paint?

DAFOE: Yes.

Did you keep with it after film making? Is this something you discovered in yourself?

DAFOE: No, it's like so many things, you know? It's like, what makes me a painter is that situation. And then once you take away those things, I've got to work really hard to sustain that. It's like any character. The character goes away when the circumstances go away. A character is revealed through applying yourself to circumstances. And then he is born. You can't sustain that without the circumstances.

Of course, personally, I could go out and get some paints, but my life is far too nomadic. I've been doing other projects and it's like … this is a very, very dear experience to me, and I loved to paint. It made me understand the things he'd say about, “I'd stop thinking when I paint,” or “painting is a meditation.” Many things. It connected him to the swirl of the rise and fall of all things. I really see differently because of doing this movie. And I don't mean just with my eyes, I mean how I look at things.

Sure.

DAFOE: I'm spinning out.

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Image via CBS Films

Well, I was going to say, you obviously paint on film. In those moments, are you more nervous than typical on set because you're doing something that you’re not used to?

DAFOE: No, because I've got … I'm so overwhelmed by the task. That's the secret of performing. Overwhelm yourself with such a challenge that you can't worry about it. No, I'm serious. That's why I cling to learning how to do things. That's the point of concentration. Then you're no worried about what's coming off you. You're really doing something. There's a truth to it, because you really are doing it.

Good or bad, I've always felt most comfortable with concentrating on the quality of the engagement, and then it's a lot of other people's work to frame it. If you worry about too much of that, you become self-conscious, and it takes you away from the quality of the engagement. But if you have a strong action to do, you lose yourself. Willem's not there anymore. Actors aren't there anymore. You're doing something and it's being recorded. That's the greatest possibility that you'll surprise yourself and that there will be some truth in what you're doing. Because you're not steering it. Other forces are steering it and you are inviting them to take you over.

When I interviewed Joaquin Phoenix, he told me that his best day on set is when he arrives in the morning and they call lunch and he doesn't even realize what's been going on. He's just disappeared into the role.

DAFOE: That sounds wacky! Do I sound that wacky? No, no. He's a good actor. He's a very good actor.

It's interesting though because he's disappearing into it. Where he is not thinking about what's going on.

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Image via CBS Films

DAFOE: But it's not, it's misunderstood as like a method thing. You're so busy doing stuff. It's like, everybody knows this. If you play sports, or if you play music, or do something that engages you in a full way that you forget yourself. And if you set yourself up to do that in a way that you can really go deep then, yeah. You are that person.

I really like the scenes between you and Oscar Isaac in this film. Talk a little bit about working with him, because it seems like that had more script and more structure than when van Gogh was on his own in the wilderness exploring.

DAFOE: Well, I think that's a part of the story, there's two parts of this movie. There's the portraiture and the text and there's the scenery and the silence, basically. When Oscar came, it was a very condensed period of time, which kind of mirrors how he functions in the story. And he's got to jump in. We've created the world already. He's got to jump in. He's coming to Arles. He's coming to my place, you know? I'm his host, you know what I mean? And that's kind of reflected by him coming in towards the end of the shoot and we have him to do these things.

And the text, it was just important at that point to, I mean I don't know, Julian was very interested in that argument about the different ways to approach painting. Not so much as a intellectual argument, but more to kind of show more clearly where van Gogh was coming from. When he says, and it was so strong for me when he says, "I don't invent the picture. I find it in nature and I just have to free it."

How do you say that without having someone set that up with, "Hey, use your imagination. Fuck this drawing from models. It's bullshit. Just use your imagination. Be free." They're both revolutionaries. They both want to make a big change. They both went to painting quite late in life. They both are on the upside. They're both rebels. They're coming together but they have very different ways. You needed them to come together and have that argument.

I loved your work in this film; at what point did you realize that the performance and the film were going to be so special?

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Image via CBS Films

DAFOE: From day one. When I'm in a good situation, most often it's special for me. This one in retrospect is special because you have different jobs, different responsibilities, and different opportunities. And this one, I was able to go deep ... because that's my job. And also I had a real relationship with Julian. I know Julian for years and he fucking taught me how to paint! He changed how I look and I helped him to make a movie and he's a great film maker. So, he invited and other people, Louise, Jean-Claude Carrière, Benoît Delhomme, the other actors, he really invites you to participate. It's not like, "I have an idea." It's just about being there and then when you come in this room, he really invites you to say, "Well, Willem What do you want the chair to be?" You know? He's really like that. And that's fun, when you're dealing with someone that thinks about this stuff. He's committed.

You also got to film in real life locations. To me, that's the best part of this gig.

DAFOE: Except for Arles in November. Don't go there, man. You know, we make one little references to the wind. It's a killer. Did you see the movie recently?

Yeah, I saw it two days ago.

DAFOE: Okay, there's a scene where I'm painting the roots and the kids come. Those kids were blue. It was so fucking cold. Arles is a very different place than Arles in the summer when the tourists are there. In winter, it's quite a rough place. Which made it beautiful to shoot there because it was ours. We didn't have any distractions. In fact, you go down the street and there's you know, a bunch of guys hanging out, smoking cigarettes on the street and about half, most of the restaurants are closed. It's like a ghost town.

I would love to walk where he actually walked.

DAFOE: That's true. And you know, because of land management, unlike in this country, in France land stays in the hands of people much longer. There are landscapes there that are almost recognizable in his paintings. I mean the landscape hasn't changed. And that's thrilling. Because it doesn't take much of an imagination to stand someplace and say, this is what he's seeing. The scene, you saw it two days ago, so I don't want to get too in-house on this, but the scene where we improvised and ran out in the field at magic hour. And I run around and I lay down on the ground and I crumble …

The dirt!

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Image via CBS Films

DAFOE: And I eat the dirt, you know? There was a very special feeling about doing that. It was an improvisation. Okay. When I left, I found out that's one of the fields where he painted one of his last paintings. I mean, there was a placard there that I didn't even see. In one corner of the land. And it was basically in the same place.

Yeah, that's crazy.

DAFOE: You're flirting with ghosts, I always say. When you're in the real place, you know? You're not saying it's the same feeling, but that earth holds the knowledge, those skies are witness you know, without getting too crazy about it, but it helps the pretending. It helps the stepping, letting yourself go, and jumping into something else.

Obviously the editing is the final rewrite on the movie. Do you ever like being involved in an editing process, or when you walk off set, do you say, "Show me when it's done?"

DAFOE: It depends on the kind of movie and who the director is. They have to invite me, obviously.

Sure.

DAFOE: I'm not the kind of guy that runs to the monitor to see how we're doing. Not usually, only if I want to see how a shot, you know, the timing of a shot is but, I try to put it out there and create the material for them and then that next step happens. Normally. But then someone like Abel Ferrara, you know, I'm on the phone with him all the time during the editing process and he's always sending me new edits and asking me what I think. But that's a particular case. With Julian, I was on to doing other things. He edited it with Louise [Kugelberg], you know. On the laptop. Just doing little bits at a time. But he took beautiful care, so you know. It turned out.

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